RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
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- Lemon Quarter
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RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
RSPB: This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don’t use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory. Please read this thread.
https://twitter.com/RSPBEngland/status/ ... 5568580613
https://twitter.com/RSPBEngland/status/ ... 5568580613
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Liz & KK?
Hmmm what does it say?Lanark wrote:RSPB: This Government has today launched an attack on nature. We don’t use the words that follow lightly. We are entering uncharted territory. Please read this thread.
https://twitter.com/RSPBEngland/status/ ... 5568580613
Twitter won't let me read it without logging in as a user.
Presumably this is something to do with wind turbines and birds? If so, frankly I think I'd rather have the energy security than an ever so slightly larger bird population.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Liz & KK?
As of today, from Cornwall to Cumbria, Norfolk to Nottingham wildlife is facing one of the greatest threats it’s faced in decades. 2/13
What the Government has proposed in today’s mini-budget on top of yesterday’s announcements potentially tears up the most fundamental legal protections our remaining wildlife has. 3/13
If they carry out their plans nowhere will be safe. This map shows legally protected areas in purple and orange (the SACs and SPAs) mapped on to districts, in green, that want investment zones. Places where anything could be built anywhere. And these are just the start. 4/13
“Releasing more land” they call it 5/13
The government has agreement in principle with 38 areas to establish tax-cutting Investment Zones which will drive growth & unlock housing development.
Work will also begin with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to agree zones in these locations.
And it doesn’t stop there – the new Retained EU Laws Bill could see the end of basic protections known as the Habitat Regulations. Laws that protect our birds and animals, everywhere from forests to our coasts. 6/13
Where you live, the wildlife and places you love, from the shires to the cities – all under threat from bulldozers, from concrete. 7/13
For now, this is focussed on England, but the intent is clear for this to extend across the UK. 8/13
What the Government has proposed in today’s mini-budget on top of yesterday’s announcements potentially tears up the most fundamental legal protections our remaining wildlife has. 3/13
If they carry out their plans nowhere will be safe. This map shows legally protected areas in purple and orange (the SACs and SPAs) mapped on to districts, in green, that want investment zones. Places where anything could be built anywhere. And these are just the start. 4/13
“Releasing more land” they call it 5/13
The government has agreement in principle with 38 areas to establish tax-cutting Investment Zones which will drive growth & unlock housing development.
Work will also begin with Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to agree zones in these locations.
And it doesn’t stop there – the new Retained EU Laws Bill could see the end of basic protections known as the Habitat Regulations. Laws that protect our birds and animals, everywhere from forests to our coasts. 6/13
Where you live, the wildlife and places you love, from the shires to the cities – all under threat from bulldozers, from concrete. 7/13
For now, this is focussed on England, but the intent is clear for this to extend across the UK. 8/13
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- The full Lemon
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
This is no doubt way OTT for the sake of effect. If it is referring to the siting of wind turbines, that is fine because we have far too many of the them in Scotland and at least one poster was very keen on them on land when I argued against them yesterday. I am sure there are many more who would prefer energy security to birds, not that wind turbines provide that anyway but they do help.
Dod
Dod
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
I agree they could have made it clearer, but they seem to be talking about housing, not wind turbines.Dod101 wrote:This is no doubt way OTT for the sake of effect. If it is referring to the siting of wind turbines, that is fine because we have far too many of the them in Scotland and at least one poster was very keen on them on land when I argued against them yesterday. I am sure there are many more who would prefer energy security to birds, not that wind turbines provide that anyway but they do help.
Scott.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
We should be very concerned about Truss's philosophy, of which this is part. She is a libertarian capitalist: the less rules that capitalism has to abide by, the better in her view.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Liz & KK?
Not sure why that particular page does that to you but not to me (I'm not a registered twitter user), but I find that when it does popup the large login or sign up panel, if I click to log in the login box that then appears has an "X" at the top left, which I can click to close it and then all the obtrusions go away and I can read the tweets.Mike4 wrote:Twitter won't let me read it without logging in as a user.
Not just housing but also commercial and industrial development.swill453 wrote:I agree they could have made it clearer, but they seem to be talking about housing, not wind turbines.Dod101 wrote:This is no doubt way OTT for the sake of effect. If it is referring to the siting of wind turbines, that is fine because we have far too many of the them in Scotland and at least one poster was very keen on them on land when I argued against them yesterday. I am sure there are many more who would prefer energy security to birds, not that wind turbines provide that anyway but they do help.
E.g. the government's just published Growth Plan (PDF, 44 pages) lists, amongst others, airports, docks, industrial areas, manufacturing parks and "a proposed battery Gigafactory".
The plan has an almost 2 page panel describing Investment Zones (pp 17-18, as numbered) but other than "disapplying legacy EU red tape" being part of the "planning liberalisation" it's not specific on the matters the RSPB seem to be concerned about.
From the map in the tweets they seem to be concerned that many of the potential investment zone areas contain Special Areas of Conservation (SACs) and Special Protection Areas (SPAs), that are protected sites under the EC Habitats and Birds Directives, and that the new Retained EU Laws (Revocation and Reform) Bill 2022 will simply scrap the SACs and SPAs as part of the "planning liberalisation".
That's what I make of it, anyway....
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- 2 Lemon pips
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Re: Liz & KK?
mc2fool wrote:Not sure why that particular page does that to you but not to me (I'm not a registered twitter user), but I find that when it does popup the large login or sign up panel, if I click to log in the login box that then appears has an "X" at the top left, which I can click to close it and then all the obtrusions go away and I can read the tweetsMike4 wrote:Twitter won't let me read it without logging in as a user.
Thanks for that mc2fool! I'm not registered either so it was always annoying to be blocked halfway through reading a tweet
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Tricia
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
I'm surprised they don't want to ban cats. With each one likely to kill more than x4 birds a year plus other wildlife. That over 40m birds savaged a year. Maybe they feel they can't say that cos we cat people will stop our donations and there are too many of us if it comes to a vote.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
They do have something to say on cats https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildl ... -declines/Gerry557 wrote:I'm surprised they don't want to ban cats. With each one likely to kill more than x4 birds a year plus other wildlife. That over 40m birds savaged a year. Maybe they feel they can't say that cos we cat people will stop our donations and there are too many of us if it comes to a vote.
Includes "Despite the large numbers of birds killed by cats in gardens, there is no clear scientific evidence that such mortality is causing bird populations to decline."
Scott.
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
Total distraction. Cats kill individual birds. That's nature: predators predate; prey species aim to defend/evade but also breed to make up numbers.Gerry557 wrote:I'm surprised they don't want to ban cats. With each one likely to kill more than x4 birds a year plus other wildlife. That over 40m birds savaged a year. Maybe they feel they can't say that cos we cat people will stop our donations and there are too many of us if it comes to a vote.
Concreting destroys everything. You can't breed new habitats.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
Not if you keep them indoors.Gerry557 wrote:I'm surprised they don't want to ban cats. With each one likely to kill more than x4 birds a year plus other wildlife. That over 40m birds savaged a year. Maybe they feel they can't say that cos we cat people will stop our donations and there are too many of us if it comes to a vote.
Outdoor cats tend to live an average of two to five years, sometimes longer.
Indoor cats can live to be 17 years or older. The average life expectancy for indoor cats, however, is closer to 14 years.
In human terms that is like dying at 21 instead of 85.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: RSPB thread split from Liz and KK thread
Yeah, well, chase down the references in that article. Reference (1), which is where the two to five years comes from says "Cats who spend their lives exclusively outdoors live an average of just 2 to 5 years" (on average? an average with that range?).Lanark wrote:Not if you keep them indoors.Gerry557 wrote:I'm surprised they don't want to ban cats. With each one likely to kill more than x4 birds a year plus other wildlife. That over 40m birds savaged a year. Maybe they feel they can't say that cos we cat people will stop our donations and there are too many of us if it comes to a vote.
Outdoor cats tend to live an average of two to five years, sometimes longer.
Indoor cats can live to be 17 years or older. The average life expectancy for indoor cats, however, is closer to 14 years.
In human terms that is like dying at 21 instead of 85.
Reference (2) however, says "Cats who spend significant unsupervised time outdoors tend to survive to be about 7 years old".
What's "significant" isn't specified, but IME cats that have a choice (i.e. have a cat flap) spend significant amounts of time indoors demanding fuss from their humans, and further significant amounts of time indoors sleeping, and only actually go out for a few hours each day.
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