Classical Grammar
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- Lemon Half
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Classical Grammar
Far be it from me to think of correcting an Oxford-educated classicist, but this is painful.
If [subject] were a [thing], which I can tell you from personal experience it is, ...
To my impoverished understanding (having never formally encountered the grammar of any language save in the context of O-level German) that is simply wrong. The comparison in the first clause implies negation of the condition, but that negation is immediately contradicted by the subordinate clause that follows.
Aaargh!
If [subject] were a [thing], which I can tell you from personal experience it is, ...
To my impoverished understanding (having never formally encountered the grammar of any language save in the context of O-level German) that is simply wrong. The comparison in the first clause implies negation of the condition, but that negation is immediately contradicted by the subordinate clause that follows.
Aaargh!
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Is that a grammatical issue, or is it a logical mobius loop, of the "all Cretans are liars" kind? I'm not sure.
BJ
BJ
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
If hangovers were a thing, which I can tell you from personal experience...UncleEbenezer wrote:Far be it from me to think of correcting an Oxford-educated classicist, but this is painful.
If [subject] were a [thing], which I can tell you from personal experience it is, ...
To my impoverished understanding (having never formally encountered the grammar of any language save in the context of O-level German) that is simply wrong. The comparison in the first clause implies negation of the condition, but that negation is immediately contradicted by the subordinate clause that follows.
Aaargh!
Doesn't seem wrong to me (or am I missing the point?).
Some people haven't experienced them, perhaps the medical profession don't acknowledge their existence, and therefore there is some doubt as to their existence. The first clause introduces the possibility they exist, or not, whilst the second personalises it to say I have experienced it. I don't know what the next part of the sentence is/was so can't comment as to its grammatical correctness, or not.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Exactly. I had been intending to make a similar point about dreaming in colour - some people apparently insist that all dreams are in black and white, while the rest of us experience them in glorious technicolour. While there's no obvious way of convincing the first group that its black-and-white experience is untypical, it seems only reasonable for the second group to assert its multicoloured experience, even if it has to be acknowledged that there's no real prospect of convincing the other.dealtn wrote: If hangovers were a thing, which I can tell you from personal experience...
Doesn't seem wrong to me (or am I missing the point?).
Some people haven't experienced them, perhaps the medical profession don't acknowledge their existence, and therefore there is some doubt as to their existence. The first clause introduces the possibility they exist, or not, whilst the second personalises it to say I have experienced it. I don't know what the next part of the sentence is/was so can't comment as to its grammatical correctness, or not.
BJ
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Yes I get the dreams in colour, but my sister takes things to a new level, which I find hard to er, visualize, but she insists she can experience.bungeejumper wrote:Exactly. I had been intending to make a similar point about dreaming in colour - some people apparently insist that all dreams are in black and white, while the rest of us experience them in glorious technicolour. While there's no obvious way of convincing the first group that its black-and-white experience is untypical, it seems only reasonable for the second group to assert its multicoloured experience, even if it has to be acknowledged that there's no real prospect of convincing the other.dealtn wrote: If hangovers were a thing, which I can tell you from personal experience...
Doesn't seem wrong to me (or am I missing the point?).
Some people haven't experienced them, perhaps the medical profession don't acknowledge their existence, and therefore there is some doubt as to their existence. The first clause introduces the possibility they exist, or not, whilst the second personalises it to say I have experienced it. I don't know what the next part of the sentence is/was so can't comment as to its grammatical correctness, or not.
BJ
If you say a word to her she "sees" that word in her head, and specific words have a colour, and that colour will always be the same. Even weirder, if the word you say is itself a colour, such as "yellow" she sees that word in her head but it won't be in the colour yellow!
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Synaesthesia ?
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Yes, but someone who has it trying to "convince" someone that doesn't have it, and can't conceive of its very existence, can be a frustrating challenge I guess.AleisterCrowley wrote:Synaesthesia ?
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Bless you. Make sure you bin that tissue, now.AleisterCrowley wrote:Synaesthesia ?
BJ
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
"all Cretans are liars" - this actually resolves to a satisfactory statebungeejumper wrote:Is that a grammatical issue, or is it a logical mobius loop, of the "all Cretans are liars" kind? I'm not sure.
BJ
The Cretan you meet is a liar, who knows of one or more Cretans who tell the truth
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Yes.dealtn wrote:If hangovers were a thing, which I can tell you from personal experience...UncleEbenezer wrote:Far be it from me to think of correcting an Oxford-educated classicist, but this is painful.
If [subject] were a [thing], which I can tell you from personal experience it is, ...
To my impoverished understanding (having never formally encountered the grammar of any language save in the context of O-level German) that is simply wrong. The comparison in the first clause implies negation of the condition, but that negation is immediately contradicted by the subordinate clause that follows.
Aaargh!
Doesn't seem wrong to me (or am I missing the point?).
"If hangovers were a thing" is a figure of speech. The grammatical construct I condensed (without recollecting his exact words) was materially different.
Yours is at least debatable; Stuttley's was painful to hear.
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
The whole construction is flawed, as it excludes the possibility of a Cretan who sometimes but not always lies.AleisterCrowley wrote:"all Cretans are liars" - this actually resolves to a satisfactory statebungeejumper wrote:Is that a grammatical issue, or is it a logical mobius loop, of the "all Cretans are liars" kind? I'm not sure.
BJ
The Cretan you meet is a liar, who knows of one or more Cretans who tell the truth
All politicians are liars. Doesn't mean everything they say is a lie.
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- Lemon Quarter
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Re: Classical Grammar
Russell, who in the early 1900s was utterly perplexed by this self-referential paradox, stated it as follows: Epimenides the Cretan said that all Cretans were liars, and all other statements made by Cretans were certainly lies. Was this a lie?
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
I had that [flipping] Bertrand Russell in the back of my cab. I said, “’Ere, Bertie, you’ve written the history of the [flipping] Western world, what’s the [flipping] answer?”
He looked round, didn’t [flipping] know. And I said, “Look, Bertie, Bertie, Bertie..... GET OUT THE CAB.”
He said: “What is the meaning of getting out the cab?”
I said, “There’s no [flipping] meaning, it just means ‘get out the cab’.”
And he went into some philosophical argument about whether getting out the cab was the same as getting in the cab. All that cr*p, I thought, “[Flip] it.”
He looked round, didn’t [flipping] know. And I said, “Look, Bertie, Bertie, Bertie..... GET OUT THE CAB.”
He said: “What is the meaning of getting out the cab?”
I said, “There’s no [flipping] meaning, it just means ‘get out the cab’.”
And he went into some philosophical argument about whether getting out the cab was the same as getting in the cab. All that cr*p, I thought, “[Flip] it.”
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
No, no, guv, you've got it all wrong. That was Schrodinger's cab.AleisterCrowley wrote: He said: “What is the meaning of getting out the cab?”
I said, “There’s no [flipping] meaning, it just means ‘get out the cab’.”
And he went into some philosophical argument about whether getting out the cab was the same as getting in the cab. All that cr*p, I thought, “[Flip] it.”
BJ
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
I think you must have read my "Schrödinger's immigrant" joke the other day, didn't you!bungeejumper wrote:No, no, guv, you've got it all wrong. That was Schrodinger's cab.AleisterCrowley wrote: He said: “What is the meaning of getting out the cab?”
I said, “There’s no [flipping] meaning, it just means ‘get out the cab’.”
And he went into some philosophical argument about whether getting out the cab was the same as getting in the cab. All that cr*p, I thought, “[Flip] it.”
BJ
But getting back on topic (pedantry), the point of schrödinger's anything is that it can exist in two states (e.g. dead and alive), but simultaneously exists in both until someone pitches up and has a gander at it. Yes?
Puts me in mind of what my dear old departed Dad used to say. "If you think you understand quantum mechanics, I clearly haven't explained it properly". I'm pretty sure he nicked that from someone before him though.
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- Lemon Slice
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Re: Classical Grammar
"Get out the cab " must mean that the cab is garaged and is needed for business and does not mean "get out of the cab" . But then , who says what they mean or mean what they say these days .
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- Lemon Half
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Re: Classical Grammar
Just as "Fire up the Quattro!" doesn't sound so good if the Quattro happens to be the name of your hotel?marronier wrote:"Get out the cab " must mean that the cab is garaged and is needed for business and does not mean "get out of the cab" .
BJ