Sudan Airlift

[Dod101]

I cannot find that this topic has been raised already but I must say I am quite impressed by the Sudanese/British citizens. I noticed on TV last evening that when some of those returning were greeted by a BBC reporter the reporter as always was seeking problems, outrage or scandal. No news without that of course. Several people were asked 'What about the long delay in getting you out compared to the German citizens?' The reply nearly always was 'It all went well once we were at the airfield. The soldiers were very helpful and we are here safely.' Some adding 'We are very grateful'. Of course some were unhappy that their old mother or whoever was not being offered a place as well but without a passport how could they except on humanitarian grounds? The line has to be drawn somewhere though.

What is more quite a number seemed to be well educated and in good, often public sector, jobs. We could do with more like them by the sound of it.

Dod

[redsturgeon]

I would agree with you on the mature and measured response of those saved so far. Unfortunately there have also been cases of families being split up over paperwork issues and also valuable NHS staff being left stranded at the airport even though planes were leave not completely full due to having UK work permits rather than citizenship.

[mc2fool]

Yes, once they were at the airport, but there have also been quite a few complaining of a dearth of information before that, and there has not been any reasonable explanation yet that I've heard of why we were so far behind other countries (not just Germany) in starting the evacuations.

The question was asked on Question Time last night and the govt minister on the panel, Rachel Maclean, was clearly uninformed and out of her depth on the matter, even to the point of Layla Moran correcting her with "but that's not what the foreign secretary said on the floor of the house today". Of course, to be fair, and as Maclean herself went on to emphasise, she is just the housing minister....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... 3-27042023, start at 12:40 for that bit

[Nimrod103]

I speak from experience, having been evacuated from Sanaa by the British Army and British Airways some 30 years ago, during a momentary lull in that civil war (ie the previous civil war, not the current one).

The Foreign Office advice in these circumstances is that the safest place for non combatants is sheltering at home. As soon as you are on the street you become a potential target. There seems to have been a particular threat in Khartoum against the UK and US embassy staff, which is unusual, but in the light of what happened to the US staff in Benghazi, I assume there are many Islamic fundamentalist terrorists around looking for an opportunity to strike. Hence they got the embassy staff out first.

The big problem is communications because normal phone and internet service will have been cut straight away, and not many people have satellite phones. Identifying who genuinely needs help is the next problem, and where they are. I recall there was a big effort in Sanaa to find an Australian who was complaining he was in danger, only to find that he was perfectly safe, and was selfishly panicking.

Then the British special forces had to negotiate to get Brits (and Commonwealth) citizens to meet at a hotel and then negotiate passage in convoy to the airport. Negotiations take time, foreign forces cannot just turn up with guns and pull their citizens out. They have no legal status in the country as combatants.

I am concerned with the number of dual passport holding Sudanese who have clearly left the UK and returned to live in Sudan. How much obligation does the UK have to get those people out? What if they get involved in local politics or are involved in the fighting? The UK position could become quite awkward.

[gryffron]

also valuable NHS staff being left stranded at the airport even though planes were leave not completely full due to having UK work permits rather than citizenship.

It seems quite clear that the military were instructed to rescue British citizens, not work permit/visa holders. And have done exactly that. Can't expect squaddies to make immigration decisions. So if there's a failing, it is a govt failing for not issuing clear orders.

As already mentioned in this thread, it seems to me the military (as usual) made a reasonably good job under difficult circumstances. And (as usual) all the media want to do is criticize.

Gryff

[redsturgeon]

also valuable NHS staff being left stranded at the airport even though planes were leave not completely full due to having UK work permits rather than citizenship.

It seems quite clear that the military were instructed to rescue British citizens, not work permit/visa holders. And have done exactly that. Can't expect squaddies to make immigration decisions. So if there's a failing, it is a govt failing for not issuing clear orders.

As already mentioned in this thread, it seems to me the military (as usual) made a reasonably good job under difficult circumstances. And (as usual) all the media want to do is criticize.

Gryff

I don't hear anyone criticising the military.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I wonder if the UK's intelligence service has been asleep at the wheel?

We were at the front of intel regarding the Russian invasion of Ukraine in 2022.

Yet in Sudan we've gone at snail’s pace. The Sudanese issue is simple. Russia is supporting the RSF.

AiY(D)

[BobbyD]

I would agree with you on the mature and measured response of those saved so far. Unfortunately there have also been cases of families being split up over paperwork issues and also valuable NHS staff being left stranded at the airport even though planes were leave not completely full due to having UK work permits rather than citizenship.

Dear Sir,

We regret to inform you that your operation scheduled[Deletion]

Moderator Message:
Repeated hi-jacking of threads to score political points is IMO unacceptable behaviour. Please stop doing it. It disrupts the clearly intended direction of discussion. I am sure there are other sites more suited to such agendas. If further such posts are reported they are likely to be removed completely and without notification. Thanks - Chris

[Dod101]

I will be very sorry if this thread descends into yet another trolling session. I was making a genuine comment about the attitude of the Sudanese/ Brits which I found very refreshing. We do not need unsubstantiated snide comments about the attitude of the British who seem to have acted as well as they could in the circumstances.

Dod

[mc2fool]

Sudan crisis: NHS doctors told they can catch last UK evacuation flights

The UK government has told NHS doctors in Sudan they can now catch evacuation flights out of the country, in a U-turn on its previous policy.
More than 20 NHS medics were initially told they could not board flights because they were not British nationals - although they have UK work permits.
The change comes just hours before the UK's final rescue flights out of Sudan.
:
:
British nationals and the NHS doctors hoping to leave Sudan now had until midday local time (11:00 BST) to reach the Wadi Seidna airfield, with the final flight to depart at 18:00 BST on Saturday.
They have been instructed to make their own way to the airfield.
The Foreign Office said the last flights mark "the end of a successful evacuation operation with 1,573 people evacuated so far", and it was winding up evacuations due to "declining demand for seats".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65433363

[BobbyD]

I would agree with you on the mature and measured response of those saved so far. Unfortunately there have also been cases of families being split up over paperwork issues and also valuable NHS staff being left stranded at the airport even though planes were leave not completely full due to having UK work permits rather than citizenship.

Dear Sir,

We regret to inform you that your operation scheduled[Deletion]

Moderator Message:
Repeated hi-jacking of threads to score political points is IMO unacceptable behaviour. Please stop doing it. It disrupts the clearly intended direction of discussion. I am sure there are other sites more suited to such agendas. If further such posts are reported they are likely to be removed completely and without notification. Thanks - Chris

What is the procedure for submitting a complaint about ridiculous moderation?

[mc2fool]

What is the procedure for submitting a complaint about ridiculous moderation?

Room 101 - Escalation to Admin
Raise issues with Admin (Stooz, Clariman, Redsturgeon) e.g. alert to something important on the site or ask Admin about a moderation decision. You will be answered, but there is no response time guarantee.

Although you might start by PMing the moderator in question. No discussion in-thread here though as that's not allowed.

[BobbyD]

What is the procedure for submitting a complaint about ridiculous moderation?

Room 101 - Escalation to Admin
Raise issues with Admin (Stooz, Clariman, Redsturgeon) e.g. alert to something important on the site or ask Admin about a moderation decision. You will be answered, but there is no response time guarantee.

Although you might start by PMing the moderator in question. No discussion in-thread here though as that's not allowed.

After the glowing and thoroughly appropriate review I received upthread?

[mc2fool]

Room 101 - Escalation to Admin
Raise issues with Admin (Stooz, Clariman, Redsturgeon) e.g. alert to something important on the site or ask Admin about a moderation decision. You will be answered, but there is no response time guarantee.

Although you might start by PMing the moderator in question. No discussion in-thread here though as that's not allowed.

After the glowing and thoroughly appropriate review I received upthread?

Sorry I bothered to answer your question and tried to be helpful.