The Lemon Fool

Alot of brainwashed folk on this thread. Folk who think lockdowns - sorry, "measures" and "restrictions" - make any real difference to the spread of the virus. Unless you stay in very hard lockdown forever, they dont. That's why so many countries are going in and out of them like a revolving door. Keep doing the same thing and seriously believe that the outcome will somehow be different? If it wasn't so sad that people actually believe this, I would laugh.

Folk who think that we can vaccinate our way out of the crisis. We cant. Vaccines protect the vaccinated person for a few months at best. After that, it's back to square one. You are considered unvaccinated. The vulnerable such as the elderly will be willing to be jabbed two or three times a year. Most of the rest of the public will not. As vaccine fatigue sets in, what then? The percentage of the public willing to be boosted, double boosted then re boosted will gradually fall to a minority. Then what? Mandate the vaccines? I doubt that Boris will dare suggest his "national conversation" again after 100 of his own MPs rebelled against his hopeless covid passports. Even bumbling Boris realises that its a non starter. No doubt some on here wish that he would. Keep wishing. He wont.

Folk on here who seriously believe that "making life difficult for the unvaccinated", whatever that means, will make any real difference either. Take a look at countries who have very high rates of jabbed individuals who continue to jab and "restrict". They keep going in and out of the revolving door and the virus continues to spread. Many countries have tried to lockdown the unjabbed but guess what..............?

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

harris1939 wrote:Alot of brainwashed folk on this thread. Folk who think lockdowns - sorry, "measures" and "restrictions" - make any real difference to the spread of the virus. Unless you stay in very hard lockdown forever, they dont. That's why so many countries are going in and out of them like a revolving door. Keep doing the same thing and seriously believe that the outcome will somehow be different? If it wasn't so sad that people actually believe this, I would laugh.

Folk who think that we can vaccinate our way out of the crisis. We cant. Vaccines protect the vaccinated person for a few months at best. After that, it's back to square one. You are considered unvaccinated. The vulnerable such as the elderly will be willing to be jabbed two or three times a year. Most of the rest of the public will not. As vaccine fatigue sets in, what then? The percentage of the public willing to be boosted, double boosted then re boosted will gradually fall to a minority. Then what? Mandate the vaccines? I doubt that Boris will dare suggest his "national conversation" again after 100 of his own MPs rebelled against his hopeless covid passports. Even bumbling Boris realises that its a non starter. No doubt some on here wish that he would. Keep wishing. He wont.

Folk on here who seriously believe that "making life difficult for the unvaccinated", whatever that means, will make any real difference either. Take a look at countries who have very high rates of jabbed individuals who continue to jab and "restrict". They keep going in and out of the revolving door and the virus continues to spread. Many countries have tried to lockdown the unjabbed but guess what..............?

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

Promising first post -- welcome to The Lemon Fool!

GS

harris1939 wrote:Alot of brainwashed folk on this thread. Folk who think lockdowns - sorry, "measures" and "restrictions" - make any real difference to the spread of the virus. Unless you stay in very hard lockdown forever, they dont. That's why so many countries are going in and out of them like a revolving door. Keep doing the same thing and seriously believe that the outcome will somehow be different? If it wasn't so sad that people actually believe this, I would laugh.

Folk who think that we can vaccinate our way out of the crisis. We cant. Vaccines protect the vaccinated person for a few months at best. After that, it's back to square one. You are considered unvaccinated. The vulnerable such as the elderly will be willing to be jabbed two or three times a year. Most of the rest of the public will not. As vaccine fatigue sets in, what then? The percentage of the public willing to be boosted, double boosted then re boosted will gradually fall to a minority. Then what? Mandate the vaccines? I doubt that Boris will dare suggest his "national conversation" again after 100 of his own MPs rebelled against his hopeless covid passports. Even bumbling Boris realises that its a non starter. No doubt some on here wish that he would. Keep wishing. He wont.

Folk on here who seriously believe that "making life difficult for the unvaccinated", whatever that means, will make any real difference either. Take a look at countries who have very high rates of jabbed individuals who continue to jab and "restrict". They keep going in and out of the revolving door and the virus continues to spread. Many countries have tried to lockdown the unjabbed but guess what..............?

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

Plenty of negatives and criticism. Fair enough; everyone is entitled to an opinion. But I believe that if someone is being totally dismissive of all attempts to preserve lives and try to avoid a total swamping of the NHS, it would be helpful to the debate if they gave some indication as to how they would proceed if they had a free hand to deal with Covid. And perhaps without the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.

harris1939 wrote:Alot of brainwashed folk on this thread. Folk who think lockdowns - sorry, "measures" and "restrictions" - make any real difference to the spread of the virus. Unless you stay in very hard lockdown forever, they dont. That's why so many countries are going in and out of them like a revolving door. Keep doing the same thing and seriously believe that the outcome will somehow be different? If it wasn't so sad that people actually believe this, I would laugh.

Folk who think that we can vaccinate our way out of the crisis. We cant. Vaccines protect the vaccinated person for a few months at best. After that, it's back to square one. You are considered unvaccinated. The vulnerable such as the elderly will be willing to be jabbed two or three times a year. Most of the rest of the public will not. As vaccine fatigue sets in, what then? The percentage of the public willing to be boosted, double boosted then re boosted will gradually fall to a minority. Then what? Mandate the vaccines? I doubt that Boris will dare suggest his "national conversation" again after 100 of his own MPs rebelled against his hopeless covid passports. Even bumbling Boris realises that its a non starter. No doubt some on here wish that he would. Keep wishing. He wont.

Folk on here who seriously believe that "making life difficult for the unvaccinated", whatever that means, will make any real difference either. Take a look at countries who have very high rates of jabbed individuals who continue to jab and "restrict". They keep going in and out of the revolving door and the virus continues to spread. Many countries have tried to lockdown the unjabbed but guess what..............?

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

Do you have any evidence that “vaccines protect… for a few months at most”? If we define protect as “protect from serious illness” I don’t think that’s what the science suggests.

Hmm, Harris1939.

If lockdowns and similar make no/little difference, are you expecting Australian, New Zealand etc death rates (in relative terms) to "mean revert" to comparable nations as they open up?

If so, then fine, we'll soon enough see. If not, then why not?

My opinion - lockdowns, vaccinations etc bought time. They can't go on forever, but if well executed, they can ease the path from the pandemic to the endemic state.

Regards, Newroad

There are 2 points that I think harris1939 has missed.

1) lockdowns/restrictions were there to slow the spread of the virus, to enable the NHS to continue to function (or at least not to collapse entirely).
2) My polio vaccine seems to be protecting me pretty well 50+ years after it was administered. Haven't had measles or TB either, and I know I've come into contact with at least one of those several times.

Must be all that raw garlic I'm eating.

Paul

harris1939 wrote:Alot of brainwashed folk on this thread.

Oh the irony....

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

As previously discussed at length, "think for oneself" is generally refusenik-speak for 'reject the peer-reviewed scientific evidence".

An Emergency Physician who has been present in one of NYC’s busiest hospitals since Day 1 of COVID.
https://www.tiktok.com/@travelingnurse/ ... 71?lang=en

As ever with these people like harris, he plays on a grain of truth - but also it is not the whole truth.

And he doesn't come up with an alternative solution. I wonder if he would have said all this as we were eliminating smallpox, or working against measles or polio. Probably. What a counsel of despair these people give us.

Thank goodness for some serious people in science and medicine who can both confound the pessimists and improve our lot.

Of course we cannot tolerate lockdowns forever - it was only ever a delaying tactic while we could prepare weapons to move forward, and it has worked. No doubt, vaccines and treatments will be improved as time goes on, and we will emerge stronger with no thanks to doom-mongers like Mr harris.

Arb.

I suppose for every brainwashed person, there's a <insert expletive of choice> ?

To balance out the ad hominem attacks or something like that?

didds

Dear brainwashed (not all of you, I know), We should have been treating the illness with cheap generic drug combinations from very early on. Not sending ill people (ill from a supposedly very deadly virus) home to self isolate, drink water, take a paracetamol and hope you dont need to go to hospital. When in hospital you get treatment, sure. Before then, nothing. "Oh, but there are no treatments...." Rubbish. There are (allegedly) no treatments because the government wants to keep the drug companies on side. Its not that difficult to work that one out, if you can think for yourself. If you cant then you just believe Boris, Whitty, Vallance and the gang.

Even today, after all this time, infected people, jabbed or not, are advised to self isolate and pray they dont end up in hospital. Eventually the government is going to have to go down the route of early treatment because endless mass vaccinations are already failing at jab number 3. The public will not accept it ad finitum. When the fourth or fifth jab becomes neccessary I wonder how many will get in the queue for it? The vulnerable, yes. The majority of the remainder will not.

If the covid vaccines actually worked well then lets see how far the likes of Israel go with them. They are on number 4. I have had one vaccine for polio, as far as I am aware. Not erm..... 4? 5?

Overwhelmed NHS? Yawn. Hear that every single winter. How long has the government had to do something about it?

"The science........." Oh, you mean SAGE and the likes of Pagel, Gurdasani, Ferguson and the rest??? Yeah, right. The science of lockdown for months on end until everything moving is vaccinated. Oh, sorry, not lockdown. Its called "restrictions" and "measures" these days. Or even "delaying tactics". That sounds better!! The science is far from uniform about this. But the government chooses to listen to the hysterics instead of listening to ALL the different arguments. Lately they have changed tack and are not just accepting the advice provided by the hysterics. Good that they have done this, 18 months too late.

Austrailia and New Zealand? Please dont make me laugh. For every one Aus or one NZ there are 10 plus other countries that tried the same thing and ended up the same or similar to the UK, notwithstanding how covid statistics are complied in different countries. If Australia and NZ is the best anyone can do to show that lockdowns (or whatever they are now called) work then I am afraid that the totality of evidence incorporating ALL countries shows that they dont.

Mr. Harris, elderly, vulnerable, unjabbed and will not be taking any of the covid vaccines no matter what the government says or does. All the nonsense about being selfish will not work either.

Thanks all.

DrFfybes wrote: 2) My polio vaccine seems to be protecting me pretty well 50+ years after it was administered. Haven't had measles or TB either, and I know I've come into contact with at least one of those several times.

I think you've addressed one of reasons people 'distrust' covid vaccination. They haven't been tested and monitored for the full five year period normally given to new vaccines. Those you have mentioned have been rigorous tested and all yellow card submissions have been followed up and addressed.

The covid vaccines were introduced into a panic situation, quite understandable at the time. However they have been proved not to have anywhere near the longevity of the measles, TB et al vaccines, hence the need for frequent booster shots. You haven't had boosters for your measles, TB et al shots have you?

Will covid vaccines be refined over the coming years? I should hope so although I'd like to believe the milder Omicron version will wipe out the Delta version and we'll be back to the flu vaccine situation which is modified each year to deal with the prevailing flu virus at the time.

harris1939 wrote:If the covid vaccines actually worked well then lets see how far the likes of Israel go with them. They are on number 4. I have had one vaccine for polio, as far as I am aware. Not erm..... 4? 5?

How many times have people been vaccinated against influenza? How long have they been trying to find a cure for the common cold, also a coronavirus in most cases?

Might a cure for the common cold come out of all this? The symptoms of omicron variant are said to be very similar to those of the common cold.

TJH

tjh290633 wrote:

harris1939 wrote:If the covid vaccines actually worked well then lets see how far the likes of Israel go with them. They are on number 4. I have had one vaccine for polio, as far as I am aware. Not erm..... 4? 5?

How many times have people been vaccinated against influenza? How long have they been trying to find a cure for the common cold, also a coronavirus in most cases?

Might a cure for the common cold come out of all this? The symptoms of omicron variant are said to be very similar to those of the common cold.

TJH

There's a part of me thinks that the common cold is mostly harmless as everyone genetically susceptible to it succumbed on an early pass through
Perhaps this has happened a few times before (e.g. Russian Flu) and that this time... yeah perhaps we're in a position to achieve something
-sd

Mike4 wrote:

The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

As previously discussed at length, "think for oneself" is generally refusenik-speak for 'reject the peer-reviewed scientific evidence".

Strange how these 'free thinkers' never seem to dispute the Green Cross Code, or the veracity of NCAP pedestrain impact testing.

Or maybe they do, and just never get around to posting about it.

Paul

harris1939 wrote:I have had one vaccine for polio, as far as I am aware. Not erm..... 4? 5?

At least five doses of polio vaccine are recommended.

Polio vaccine is included in the 6-in-1 given at 8,12, and 16 weeks, the 4-in-1 pre-school booster at 3.33 years, and the 3-in-1 teen booster at 14 years.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinati ... have-them/

Maroochydore wrote:

DrFfybes wrote: 2) My polio vaccine seems to be protecting me pretty well 50+ years after it was administered. Haven't had measles or TB either, and I know I've come into contact with at least one of those several times.

I think you've addressed one of reasons people 'distrust' covid vaccination. They haven't been tested and monitored for the full five year period normally given to new vaccines. Those you have mentioned have been rigorous tested and all yellow card submissions have been followed up and addressed.

The covid vaccines were introduced into a panic situation, quite understandable at the time. However they have been proved not to have anywhere near the longevity of the measles, TB et al vaccines, hence the need for frequent booster shots. You haven't had boosters for your measles, TB et al shots have you?

Will covid vaccines be refined over the coming years? I should hope so although I'd like to believe the milder Omicron version will wipe out the Delta version and we'll be back to the flu vaccine situation which is modified each year to deal with the prevailing flu virus at the time.

Because the vaccine longevity hasn't proved as good as we hoped, is no reason not to use them (apart from the fact that no one knew, and still do not know precisely what the longevity will be). As you say, it was necessary at the time and I'd argue bought us valuable breathing space. Without the twenty years of work prior to this outbreak, such a fast devlopment would not have been possible.

I'm sorry to say that anti-vaxers and "free thinkers" like Mr Harris and his brand of cynicism tinted with paranoia about authority figures, will be confined to the store room of history having contributed nothing but their forlorn and hopeless views. The future lies with those others who refuse to bow to such defeatist talk and half baked ideas and who get on with their efforts to improve human existence.


Arb.

harris1939 wrote:The ability to think for oneself has been completely lost in all this wall to wall nonsense.

I would rephrase this as, the ability to not be easily influenced by social media and instead form one's own opinions through independent reading and thinking has been mostly lost.

9873210 wrote:

harris1939 wrote:I have had one vaccine for polio, as far as I am aware. Not erm..... 4? 5?

At least five doses of polio vaccine are recommended.

Polio vaccine is included in the 6-in-1 given at 8,12, and 16 weeks, the 4-in-1 pre-school booster at 3.33 years, and the 3-in-1 teen booster at 14 years.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinati ... have-them/

And in any case, just because a virus has become "cleverer" is no reason not to seek a solution. The antivaxers' defeatist and paranoid view will never improve anyone's lot.

Arb.

The only point I would take on board from the OP is that the vaccine longevity is currently lacking.
A chap on Times Radio this morning was commenting that 6-monthly topups might be needed.
Hopefully not.

V8