The Lemon Fool

A friend alerted me and a few others to an NHS web site that I certainly haven't seen publicised much. Rather than wait to be called by your GP I and a number of my friends were able to use this web site to book a time and a place for both our first and second shots. (In fact you have to book your second shot at the same time as you book your first shot with the default date for the second shot being 11 weeks after the first although you can choose a later date if that isn't convenient.)

This site also seems to open up for the next group of vaccination candidates in advance of the official announcement. For instance according to a BBC news report that I saw over the weekend the official extension of the vaccination rollout to include healthy 60 year olds officially started yesterday (Monday) yet I was able to make my booking last week and the friend who alerted me actually got his first dose last Thursday.

I know that many have got in ahead of the official age-order by being lucky enough to get a last minute call to use up what would otherwise have been wasted doses but if you're not lucky enough to get one of those opportunities this seems to be a way to get at least a few weeks head start on the process, or at least it was for me .

For people in any of the healthy under 60 age groups it might be worth checking this site now and then to see whether, as happened for the healthy 60 - 64 year olds, it starts accepting booking for your age/health group a week or so before the officially publicised date.

Here is the link. I'm not sure if this is NHS England only, I'm in London and it certainly worked for me...

https://www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-v ... nhs-number

P.S. - Despite the title of the link above you don't need to know your NHS number, to book an appointment, there is an option to "continue another way" if you don't know your NHS number which I assume works although I do know my NHS number so didn't have to use the "continue another way" option.

- Julian

Another way to book once you are eligible is to phone 119. This takes you through to the Coronavirus Vaccine service for England. You can book over the phone as long as you qualify. They'll send you text messages and/or emails to confirm time, date and place.

Last week my GP sent me a letter saying that I now qualified for a vaccine (even though I'm under 60). I tried using the online service but could not book because I'm only 57. So I rang 119 where I booked my first and second vaccines in a few minutes (I didn't need my NHS number).

Unfortunately shortly afterwards the system cancelled my second booking (I received a text saying so). On ringing 119 I was told that until I had had my first jab the system wouldn't now let me book the second.

I had my first jab yesterday (Oxford-AstraZeneca) and this morning the online system let me book the second jab.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/

Probably only a very minor short-cut, but looks like a better way of doing it than waiting for your GP to get in touch.

I received a letter yesterday telling me I was in the age group eligible to book a vaccination (Mrs.Zico didn't get a letter).
When I used the website it gave me about 10 centres to choose from to get my jab. I checked each in turn, and the earliest available data varied quite a bit. Earliest at one centre was Friday, 5th March. Earliest at another centre was 14th March. Obviously I picked the earliest date.

I then used Mrs.Zico's NHS number to see if I could book an appointment for her, and I was able to do that via the website.
Her letter inviting her to apply arrived the next day.

Quite a moral dilemma for me because I'm aware there are many millions of people in the UK and the rest of the world who are far more at risk from the vaccine than me, yet I'm being offered it before them - and for free. However, if I refuse it, that would have a big negative impact on me, and only a tiny tiny benefit for others.

I've decided to solve my moral dilemma by getting my free jab(s) on schedule, but also donating to the Arm in Arm charity which has been backed by Sarah Gilbert (the co-creator of the AstraZeneca vaccine). I don't normally donate to charity (believing that the point of taxes is to pay for things that are needed by those who can't afford them - which is why I didn't chip into Captain Tom's NHS fund) but for this I'm making an exception.

Details below for anyone interested.

https:/https://www.politicshome.com/news/artic ... cine-drive

https://www.arminarm.net/

SalvorHardin wrote: I had my first jab yesterday (Oxford-AstraZeneca) and this morning the online system let me book the second jab.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/

This brings another issue to the fore, for which there seems to be no consensus or data yet, or even much discussion recently. Is it OK to mix up the vaccines?

You were OxAZed yesterday, but when booking your second appointment using the link you posted (thank you!), did you get to specify which vaccine you're getting for your second dose? Or are you leaving it to chance? When you get there will you decline the 2nd jab if they only have Pfizer available on the day? What then?

I tried your link using my NHS number, and it offered me a number of sites but said nothing about which vaccine they would be administering. Has medical opinion decided mixing them is fine perhaps? Or is the website clever enough to have looked up my first dose and only offered me appointments at sites using the OxAZ that I had first time around?

So many questions....!


(Edit to trim the quote to the relevant bit.)

zico wrote:I've decided to solve my moral dilemma by getting my free jab(s) on schedule, but also donating to the Arm in Arm charity which has been backed by Sarah Gilbert (the co-creator of the AstraZeneca vaccine). I don't normally donate to charity (believing that the point of taxes is to pay for things that are needed by those who can't afford them - which is why I didn't chip into Captain Tom's NHS fund) but for this I'm making an exception.

Ah bless you, I didn't contribute either as their taxes should cover it. Just looked for Arm in Arm, https://arminarm.org/ and you get the tax back.

Mike4 wrote:

SalvorHardin wrote:I had my first jab yesterday (Oxford-AstraZeneca) and this morning the online system let me book the second jab.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/

This brings another issue to the fore, for which there seems to be no consensus or data yet, or even much discussion recently. Is it OK to mix up the vaccines?

You were OxAZed yesterday, but when booking your second appointment using the link you posted (thank you!), did you get to specify which vaccine you're getting for your second dose? Or are you leaving it to chance? When you get there will you decline the 2nd jab if they only have Pfizer available on the day? What then?

I tried your link using my NHS number, and it offered me a number of sites but said nothing about which vaccine they would be administering. Has medical opinion decided mixing them is fine perhaps? Or is the website clever enough to have looked up my first dose and only offered me appointments at sites using the OxAZ that I had first time around?

In my case, I noticed that the Pfizer batch number was the same for jab one and jab two. I have no idea whether that has to be the case, since I would like to think that the vaccine is consistent across batches. But it does raise the possibility that this was intentional: So when they have used 50% of a batch for first jabs, they then hold back the other half of that batch in reserve for the second jabs. That would ensure that they would never run out of that vaccine by the time your second jab is due.

I would have thought it was undesirable to mix up two different vaccines since they will not have been tested in conjunction with each other. What if there was a bad reaction between the two?

zico wrote:However, if I refuse it, that would have a big negative impact on me, and only a tiny tiny benefit for others.

Actually if you refused it, it would also have a negative impact on others, by failing to contribute to the immunity of the community as a whole.

Scott.

Mike4 wrote:This brings another issue to the fore, for which there seems to be no consensus or data yet, or even much discussion recently. Is it OK to mix up the vaccines?

You were OxAZed yesterday, but when booking your second appointment using the link you posted (thank you!), did you get to specify which vaccine you're getting for your second dose? Or are you leaving it to chance? When you get there will you decline the 2nd jab if they only have Pfizer available on the day? What then?

I tried your link using my NHS number, and it offered me a number of sites but said nothing about which vaccine they would be administering. Has medical opinion decided mixing them is fine perhaps? Or is the website clever enough to have looked up my first dose and only offered me appointments at sites using the OxAZ that I had first time around?

The second appointment didn't specify what vaccine. I would expect that it would be Oxford-AstraZeneca. Everyone I know who has had the vaccine at Taunton Racecourse had Oxford-AstraZeneca.

If I get there and they offer another, I would have a think about it.

Lootman wrote:

I would have thought it was undesirable to mix up two different vaccines since they will not have been tested in conjunction with each other. What if there was a bad reaction between the two?

They are starting to test the outcome of using different vaccines

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55924433

Lootman wrote: I would have thought it was undesirable to mix up two different vaccines since they will not have been tested in conjunction with each other. What if there was a bad reaction between the two?

The opposing argument is the theory that body is suspected to learn a vaccine itself is a foreign agent from the first dose, and sets about destroying a second dose of the same vaccine which it now recognises as foreign, before it has time to take effect. This is why Oxford is collaborating with the developers of Sputnik V with a view to sidestepping this effect by giving the first vaccination using OxAZ and the second using Sputnik V. Or vice versa.

No doubt there is a TONNE of rapid research going on looking for similar benefits from mixing OxAZ and Pf. Apparently all the vaccines aim to provoke the same immune response so mixing them is a basic Good Idea for preventing the body learning to reject subsequent doses of the same vaccine. It remains to be shown to be safe and effective AFAIK.

Julian wrote:A friend alerted me and a few others to an NHS web site that I certainly haven't seen publicised much. Rather than wait to be called by your GP I and a number of my friends were able to use this web site to book a time and a place for both our first and second shots. (In fact you have to book your second shot at the same time as you book your first shot with the default date for the second shot being 11 weeks after the first although you can choose a later date if that isn't convenient.)

i received a letter quoting my NHS Number inviting me to use the website to book appointments. The website offered a variety of centres, one of which was little more than half a mile away. There seemed a wide choice of dates and times for both first and second appointments. It turned out to be the Oxford version on offer. By contrast, my other half got a text from the GP Practice (same as mine) giving her a time and place. It was at a football stadium about four miles away and turned out to be the Pfizer jab, She is awaiting a notification for the second one.

Mike4 wrote:The opposing argument is the theory that body is suspected to learn a vaccine itself is a foreign agent from the first dose, and sets about destroying a second dose of the same vaccine which it now recognises as foreign, before it has time to take effect.

I have read that there are more side effects from the second dose. Presumably that is based on a second dose of the same.
But the approvals testing was done with 2 x same so presumably the efficacy was not overly impaired.

V8

88V8 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:The opposing argument is the theory that body is suspected to learn a vaccine itself is a foreign agent from the first dose, and sets about destroying a second dose of the same vaccine which it now recognises as foreign, before it has time to take effect.

I have read that there are more side effects from the second dose. Presumably that is based on a second dose of the same.
But the approvals testing was done with 2 x same so presumably the efficacy was not overly impaired.

V8

Doctor John's last video focussed on this and seemed to conclude nearly all of the benefit of either vaccine originated from the first dose. Regardless of whether a second dose was given, the efficacy of the first dose continues to rise with passing time, so quoting an absolute percentage figure for efficacy of either vaccine is meaningless as it continuously rises as time passes.

I wasn't particularly paying close attention though when listening (driving), so may have got this wrong.

Lootman wrote: I would have thought it was undesirable to mix up two different vaccines since they will not have been tested in conjunction with each other. What if there was a bad reaction between the two?

A question dealt with here on lemonfool a few weeks back, when a Fool told of turning down his NHS vaccination because he'd received a different one as part of a clinical trial. Possibly on "the vaccine" thread, but I'm not sure. He had consulted the folks running the trial, who advised him not to mix vaccines!

Lootman wrote:I would have thought it was undesirable to mix up two different vaccines since they will not have been tested in conjunction with each other. What if there was a bad reaction between the two?

I concede that is a possibility. But scientific consensus is that it will probably be better. Since you would get a broader based immune response which should help defeat mutations of the virus.

Tests on mixing vaccines are ongoing at the moment. No red flag reactions yet.

Gryff

Julian wrote: I'm in London and it certainly worked for me...

https://www.nhs.uk/book-a-coronavirus-v ... nhs-number

P.S. - Despite the title of the link above you don't need to know your NHS number, to book an appointment, there is an option to "continue another way" if you don't know your NHS number which I assume works although I do know my NHS number so didn't have to use the "continue another way" option.

- Julian

==========================

it only works for england .

Mike4 wrote:

SalvorHardin wrote: I had my first jab yesterday (Oxford-AstraZeneca) and this morning the online system let me book the second jab.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/

This brings another issue to the fore, for which there seems to be no consensus or data yet, or even much discussion recently. Is it OK to mix up the vaccines?
...

They are investigating that right now. Trials were announced maybe 3 or 4 weeks ago or perhaps even longer ago. A friend of mine, a healthy 57 year old, signed up for those trials because about 4 weeks ago it was looking as if he would have to wait quite a while to get vaccinated so he thought getting onto one of those trials might be a way to get a vaccine earlier (English vaccination timescales have since accelerated in terms of moving down the age groups). The trials are specifically to test efficacy of mixing I think Pfizer and Oxford/AZ doses although there might be other combos too (Moderna?). I actually haven't spoken to him since then so don't know if he was successful in getting onto one of those trials.

As an aside the Russian Sputnik V vaccine is to some extent two vaccines already. It works in a very similar way to the Oxford/AZ vaccine in that it uses a viral vector to deliver the genetic code to make the SARS-Cov-2 spike protein but whereas the Oxford/AZ dose uses the same chimp adenovirus for both first and second dose so it is the same stuff in each syringe on 1st and 2nd doses (minor batch variances not withstanding) the Sputnik V vaccine actually uses a different virus for first and second doses, they are both human adenoviruses but are different so the stuff in the syringe is materially different on first and second doses.

My usual disclaimer - I'm not an expert and the above is my understanding from what I have read. Any experts please correct any inaccuracies if appropriate.

- Julian

zico wrote:Probably only a very minor short-cut, but looks like a better way of doing it than waiting for your GP to get in touch.

I received a letter yesterday telling me I was in the age group eligible to book a vaccination (Mrs.Zico didn't get a letter).
...

Indeed. I actually got my letter yesterday as well. What I found most interesting about the site I posted though is that at least for my group (healthy 60-64 year olds) it opened up for booking appointments for that age group at least a week before Monday's official start date for that age group and some people I know had even got their first jab last week before their age group was officially opened up for GP call-ins.

Still, I do accept that a week or so jump start is still minor but I was getting frustrated with various friends having had their first dose a month(ish) ago so I was quite excited to at least get the process underway.

- Julian

Julian wrote:I saw over the weekend the official extension of the vaccination rollout to include healthy 60 year olds officially started yesterday (Monday) yet I was able to make my booking last week and the friend who alerted me actually got his first dose last Thursday.

Over 55s can now book as the 'back end' to the website has been changed to accept that group although the website still says over 60s - I tried first thing this morning and was rejected but was alerted to it by a friend this afternoon - however I had just been offered a jab that was going spare.

AF62 wrote:

Julian wrote:I saw over the weekend the official extension of the vaccination rollout to include healthy 60 year olds officially started yesterday (Monday) yet I was able to make my booking last week and the friend who alerted me actually got his first dose last Thursday.

Over 55s can now book as the 'back end' to the website has been changed to accept that group although the website still says over 60s - I tried first thing this morning and was rejected but was alerted to it by a friend this afternoon - however I had just been offered a jab that was going spare.

The front page has been updated and now includes:

Who can use this service

You can only use this service if any of the following apply:

you are aged 56 or over ...

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavir ... ccination/
Page last reviewed: 5 March 2021

Edit: Gave it a bash and was met with:

You are not currently eligible to book through this service

If you’ve already had your first dose of the coronavirus (COVID-19) vaccine at a GP surgery or hospital, contact them to book the second dose of the vaccine.

Maybe I didn't read the entire thread!