The Lemon Fool

absolutezero wrote:

Julian wrote: Yes, I wondered about widespread Pfizer “duds” being a (very unwelcome) possibility too but if that were so I would not expect to see such good efficacy data for both the AZ and crucially the Pfizer vaccines as shown in the recent data from Scotland and England if a lot of the Pfizer jabs had been “firing blanks”.

- Julian

We don't actually know the split on how many have been jabbed with each one.
Just anecdotally, I know more (significantly) who have had AZN compared to Pfizer.

We do, or at least the recent study for England very explicitly compared the AZ and Pfizer efficacy in some detail i.e. efficacy over time after first dose for each vaccine - https://khub.net/documents/135939561/43 ... 4617945615

- Julian

Ah. It looks as if reports of blood clotting issues might be coming in on all 3 approved vaccines (AZ, Pfizer and Moderna). I see that as a good thing, assuming it is discovered that the issues are at the level to be expected in the general population and not any raised risk from any of the vaccines, because at least seeing the spotlight cast evenly across all vaccines gives me more confidence in the robustness of the pharmacovigilance- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2B41U5

- Julian

Julian wrote:Ah. It looks as if reports of blood clotting issues might be coming in on all 3 approved vaccines (AZ, Pfizer and Moderna). I see that as a good thing, assuming it is discovered that the issues are at the level to be expected in the general population and not any raised risk from any of the vaccines, because at least seeing the spotlight cast evenly across all vaccines gives me more confidence in the robustness of the pharmacovigilance- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2B41U5

- Julian

The agency said it would assess reports of the condition in people who had received the Pfizer/BioNTech, AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines.

The quote from reuters doesn't read to me that there were any cases caused by all three vaccines, only that they would assess reports if there were any.

swill453 wrote:

absolutezero wrote:We don't actually know the split on how many have been jabbed with each one.

We do have that information in Scotland:



From https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotlan ... s-tracker/

It doesn't seem to be in the UK version of that page https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/

Scott.

As I said. We don't have the data.

Arborbridge wrote:

Julian wrote:Ah. It looks as if reports of blood clotting issues might be coming in on all 3 approved vaccines (AZ, Pfizer and Moderna). I see that as a good thing, assuming it is discovered that the issues are at the level to be expected in the general population and not any raised risk from any of the vaccines, because at least seeing the spotlight cast evenly across all vaccines gives me more confidence in the robustness of the pharmacovigilance- https://www.reuters.com/article/us-heal ... SKBN2B41U5

- Julian

The agency said it would assess reports of the condition in people who had received the Pfizer/BioNTech, AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines.

The quote from reuters doesn't read to me that there were any cases caused by all three vaccines, only that they would assess reports if there were any.

Fair. I’d say it’s ambiguous. It doesn’t explicitly say there are cases in all 3 vaccines but it also doesn’t say there aren’t.

I’ve been doing some trawling through the EMA Pharmacovigilance site (https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regu ... avigilance) and I think I’ve found the data for all 3 vaccines. It’s a database so I can’t post links to the actual pages I got from my searches but to see what I saw go here - http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html - and follow the instructions next the the big red “NEW!” marker and you will see links to each of the 3 EMA approved vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer and AZ). Once you open any of those links you then get a display with lots of tabs along the top. I selected “Number of Individual Cases by Reaction Group” where I assume these blood clotting cases are categorised in the “Blood and lymphatic system disorders” group. Interestingly I actually see a lot more cases in that group for Pfizer than I see for AZ. Of course I could be completely misunderstanding what I’m looking at!

- Julian

Julian wrote:

absolutezero wrote: We don't actually know the split on how many have been jabbed with each one.
Just anecdotally, I know more (significantly) who have had AZN compared to Pfizer.

We do, or at least the recent study for England very explicitly compared the AZ and Pfizer efficacy in some detail i.e. efficacy over time after first dose for each vaccine - https://khub.net/documents/135939561/43 ... 4617945615

- Julian

Unless the numbers are hiding somewhere in those 21 pages (I've skimmed but I'm not wading through), we don't have the actual number of AZN jabs given to the population.

Given the number of blood clot cases reported is zero in the UK (or so close to zero it's not made the "news") it would indicate there isn't a causative link between AZN and blood clots.

Julian wrote:

Arborbridge wrote: The agency said it would assess reports of the condition in people who had received the Pfizer/BioNTech, AstraZeneca or Moderna vaccines.

The quote from reuters doesn't read to me that there were any cases caused by all three vaccines, only that they would assess reports if there were any.

Fair. I’d say it’s ambiguous. It doesn’t explicitly say there are cases in all 3 vaccines but it also doesn’t say there aren’t.

I’ve been doing some trawling through the EMA Pharmacovigilance site (https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/human-regu ... avigilance) and I think I’ve found the data for all 3 vaccines. It’s a database so I can’t post links to the actual pages I got from my searches but to see what I saw go here - http://www.adrreports.eu/en/index.html - and follow the instructions next the the big red “NEW!” marker and you will see links to each of the 3 EMA approved vaccines (Moderna, Pfizer and AZ). Once you open any of those links you then get a display with lots of tabs along the top. I selected “Number of Individual Cases by Reaction Group” where I assume these blood clotting cases are categorised in the “Blood and lymphatic system disorders” group. Interestingly I actually see a lot more cases in that group for Pfizer than I see for AZ. Of course I could be completely misunderstanding what I’m looking at!

- Julian

Well, thanks Julian - that's a fascinating table you have dug up. If that is the right group, as you say, it seems there are cases with all three vaccines with AZN being lower. So why the fuss about AZN? - perhaps we haven't identified the right group of complications?

Arb.