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Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 15th, 2021, 7:53 pm
by Bouleversee
Bubbles of Earth and On the Move have given links to other studies re Vitamin D which suggested Vitamin D treatment did not influence either infection or recovery from Covid 19 but the evidence from the Spanish study, as reported in The Lancet, does seem quite convincing as regards the prevention of death and severe illness from Covid. Maybe it is a question of the way the Vit D supplementation is administered and how quickly it starts after admission. There is a big difference between a single dose of 200,000 iu all at once and the staged doses quoted by Lanark in his post 386716 and linked article which do seem to show a considerable degree of success in the Barcelona trial which other trials did not. We can only hope they are on to something because I don't think we have got to the end of this story by any means.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 15th, 2021, 8:18 pm
by Bouleversee
I just happened on the following when looking for something else: https://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/new ... -decline#1 That figures! My memory and cognitive function have certainly been depleted and now I can put that down to my severe (<20nmol/L) Vitamin D deficiency. The sad thing is that bumping the level up to normal doesn't seem to have made any difference. :(

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 15th, 2021, 11:23 pm
by AJC5001
Bouleversee wrote:
swill453 wrote: To be honest I didn't even know they were. I certainly haven't got mine.

Scott.
They have only been sent to those on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, those who were ordered to shield, presumably not because they have rickets but in the context of Covid-19 so in the belief that there must be some benefit in that context.
In the NHS page https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vitamins- ... vitamin-d/ there is a section:-
"Coronavirus update
It's important to take vitamin D as you may have been indoors more than usual this year.

You should take 10 micrograms (400 IU) of vitamin D a day between October and early March to keep your bones and muscles healthy.

There have been some reports about vitamin D reducing the risk of coronavirus (COVID-19). But there is currently not enough evidence to support taking vitamin D to prevent or treat coronavirus."

I read it as saying that one of the consequences of Coronavirus is that those who have been sheltering are likely to have a lower level of vitamin D because they have been indoors and not in the sunlight. This will possibly affect their general health, and a supplement may help.
It is not saying that this supplement will have any effect on anyone with coronavirus.

HTH

Adrian

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 15th, 2021, 11:45 pm
by Bouleversee
Interesting that my letter didn't mention the bit about not being outdoors so much because of Covid. Also interesting that it says nothing about Vit D being needed to support the immune system. Perhaps they don't know.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 15th, 2021, 11:46 pm
by AsleepInYorkshire
Bouleversee wrote:I just happened on the following when looking for something else: https://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/new ... -decline#1 That figures! My memory and cognitive function have certainly been depleted and now I can put that down to my severe (<20nmol/L) Vitamin D deficiency. The sad thing is that bumping the level up to normal doesn't seem to have made any difference. :(
Hi Bouleversee,

Sorry I can't recall if this has been discussed at all in the thread. Have you considered B12 as being of benefit? D3 is fat soluble and you have reserves accordingly. But B12 vitamins are water soluble so don't stay in the body for as long.

May help?

AiY

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 16th, 2021, 4:59 pm
by Bouleversee
Adamski wrote:I thought for a good while fresh air and sunshine (vit D) can curb covid19. And for immunity and overall health. We (UK) spend too much time indoors. Add ageing population and health conditions. But easier psychologically to put blame the government :roll:
I spend half my life working in my large garden and eat all the right things but still became deficient. Many people don't have a garden and have been confined to their flats during Covid. I don't blame the government for my deficiency but I do blame the GP for not carrying out tests when I reported symptoms. We don't get enough sunshine in this country to see us through the winter but how much supplementation is needed depends on the individual and only a test can decide that.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 16th, 2021, 5:06 pm
by Bouleversee
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:I just happened on the following when looking for something else: https://www.webmd.com/healthy-aging/new ... -decline#1 That figures! My memory and cognitive function have certainly been depleted and now I can put that down to my severe (<20nmol/L) Vitamin D deficiency. The sad thing is that bumping the level up to normal doesn't seem to have made any difference. :(
Hi Bouleversee,

Sorry I can't recall if this has been discussed at all in the thread. Have you considered B12 as being of benefit? D3 is fat soluble and you have reserves accordingly. But B12 vitamins are water soluble so don't stay in the body for as long.

May help?

AiY
Your memory is as bad as mine, AiY. I did say in an earlier post that I took a high strength Vitamin B complex every other day or so. Did you know that if you don't really need it it makes your pee bright yellow as it gets excreted so not dangerous? Useful for monitoring the need to take. :)

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 16th, 2021, 5:27 pm
by richfool
We have some Vitamin D tablets, which are described on the label as 25 ug strength. The label then goes on to say that is NRV 500% which I conclude means something along the lines of 500% of the recommended daily requirement. May I ask is that an appropriate dosage/requirement for the average person without any known deficiencies?

We also have a separate supply of Calcium and Vitamin D tablets, which according to the label, two tablets daily provide: Vitamin D3 - 5ug = 100% RI.

Are those sorts of dosages/quantities of any use in protecting against Covid?

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 16th, 2021, 6:24 pm
by Lanark
richfool wrote:We have some Vitamin D tablets, which are described on the label as 25 ug strength. The label then goes on to say that is NRV 500% which I conclude means something along the lines of 500% of the recommended daily requirement. May I ask is that an appropriate dosage/requirement for the average person without any known deficiencies?

We also have a separate supply of Calcium and Vitamin D tablets, which according to the label, two tablets daily provide: Vitamin D3 - 5ug = 100% RI.

Are those sorts of dosages/quantities of any use in protecting against Covid?
As mentioned earlier those dosages are for protection against rickets.

Protection against covid is unknown, but people taking them for that purpose are mostly taking 50 to 100 ug per day.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 16th, 2021, 6:41 pm
by Bouleversee
richfool wrote:We have some Vitamin D tablets, which are described on the label as 25 ug strength. The label then goes on to say that is NRV 500% which I conclude means something along the lines of 500% of the recommended daily requirement. May I ask is that an appropriate dosage/requirement for the average person without any known deficiencies?

We also have a separate supply of Calcium and Vitamin D tablets, which according to the label, two tablets daily provide: Vitamin D3 - 5ug = 100% RI.

Are those sorts of dosages/quantities of any use in protecting against Covid?
I don't think anyone has claimed or proved that Vit D can protect against infection. Those high doses given by the Barcelona hospital were to try to stop patients who were already ill enough to be admitted to hospital getting much worse and dying. As regards the ideal supplementation for people to take at home to support their immune system and help them to stay well generally and cope with a light viral load, as I said previously, that will depend on their present level, what their physique is like (fat people need more), their lifestyle and other factors/underlying conditions relating to them personally. As well as that, there are various opinions as to the daily amount the average person should take. 1 ug = 40 iu so 10 ug = 400 iu which is the amount the Dept. of Health recommends as a safe dose. Others think that that is inadequate. My GP told me to take 1000 iu p.d. once my level was back to normal after my crash course of 40,000 iu p.d. for a short period. There are also differing opinions as to the normal blood level of Vitamin D, between 20 and 50 ng/ml. It remains to be seen whether any of this will change as a result of the Covid experience.

I came across this article from Which when I was looking for the normal level; I think it sums up very well what is known to date,
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/09/vi ... t-at-risk/

I suggest you get a test to see where your level is now. If it is much below normal, I suggest you ask your GP to prescribe a suitable dose to get you up to normal. It would take far too long to get there with a maintenance dose, if ever. Check the expiry date on your tablets if you have had them for a while.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 27th, 2021, 2:12 pm
by redsturgeon
I just had my vitamin D level check and I am deficient...23.7nm/l about half what it should be...not good.

I am wondering whether to take 5000 or 10000iu per day to get up to where I should be!

John

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 27th, 2021, 3:22 pm
by Bouleversee
I think you should ask your GP. My level was less than 20 nmol/l and I was put on 40k iu per day for a very short period which got me well into normal range very quickly. I found the recommended 1000iu daily maintenance dose thereafter let the level drop back a bit. I really must organise another test as it must be over a year since the last one. Too much is as bad as too little so be careful.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 27th, 2021, 4:17 pm
by Nimrod103
Bouleversee wrote:I think you should ask your GP. My level was less than 20 nmol/l and I was put on 40k iu per day for a very short period which got me well into normal range very quickly. I found the recommended 1000iu daily maintenance dose thereafter let the level drop back a bit. I really must organise another test as it must be over a year since the last one. Too much is as bad as too little so be careful.
Vitamin D was mentioned by John Campbell in his video yesterday. Interestingly he said that 2 finger prick blood tests gave rather different readings using different labs, so he was advocating testing venous blood. I seem to recall he says he takes 4000 iu per day, which to me seems a lot, but apparently is nowhere near the dangerous dose levels. I hope your mention of 40,000 iu per day is a slip, because (though I am not a doctor), that would seem to be in the danger zone.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: February 27th, 2021, 5:09 pm
by Bouleversee
It was only for a week which I also thought was too high and so I started taking rather less at first but my consultant said it was OK so I did as prescribed.

I think Dr J had been takinG 3000 p.d. for some time but was still deficient to his surprise when he did his home test but hadn't had the result of the lab test on the video I saw so will tune in to get up to date.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 7:57 pm
by redsturgeon
I ended up taking 5000iu of vit D per day for 4 weeks and my levels went from 23.7nm/l up to 86nm/l so I am very happy. Muscles seem much less achey too.

Now on 1000iu per day and the sunshine should start to kick in from now.

John

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 8:26 pm
by Mike4
redsturgeon wrote:I ended up taking 5000iu of vit D per day for 4 weeks and my levels went from 23.7nm/l up to 86nm/l so I am very happy. Muscles seem much less achey too.

Now on 1000iu per day and the sunshine should start to kick in from now.

John
I've been taking 5,000iu per day for the past <many months> and my level was tested recently and found to be of a similar order, 99nm/l.

Even given the possible inaccuracy of the test, I too am very happy with this result. I'm still taking 5,000iu most days of the week though, given the shyte weather we are still having!

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 9:08 pm
by Nimrod103
Interesting debate on Youtube yesterday between Dr John Campbell and Prof Spector about Vitamin D. Simplifying it, half of scientists believe people get sick because they don't have enough Vit D, while the other half believe that people who are sick don't make much Vit D. Both sides can cite experiments and studies in support of their POV.

Today's programme from Dr Campbell is about scientists from the Rep of Ireland, who are adamant that people in cloudy rainy countries don't make enough Vit D to keep them healthy, and therefore they must take supplements.

Obviously by their actions, British scientists on SAGE don't support that view.

I like to rely on experts, it's just that I don't know which experts are correct.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 9:30 pm
by Mike4
Nimrod103 wrote:Interesting debate on Youtube yesterday between Dr John Campbell and Prof Spector about Vitamin D. Simplifying it, half of scientists believe people get sick because they don't have enough Vit D, while the other half believe that people who are sick don't make much Vit D. Both sides can cite experiments and studies in support of their POV.

That's not how I interpreted it at all.

To me, all scientists except Prof Tim Spector believe people get sick because they don't have enough Vit D, while Prof Tim Spector believes that people who are sick don't make much Vit D.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 9:35 pm
by Nimrod103
Mike4 wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:Interesting debate on Youtube yesterday between Dr John Campbell and Prof Spector about Vitamin D. Simplifying it, half of scientists believe people get sick because they don't have enough Vit D, while the other half believe that people who are sick don't make much Vit D. Both sides can cite experiments and studies in support of their POV.

That's not how I interpreted it at all.

To me, all scientists except Prof Tim Spector believe people get sick because they don't have enough Vit D, while Prof Tim Spector believes that people who are sick don't make much Vit D.
It can't be only Prof Spector, otherwise SAGE would be fiercely advocating that we all should be taking large Vit D supplements.
But from SAGE, PHE and NHS - silence.

Re: Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

Posted: April 8th, 2021, 11:02 pm
by Julian
redsturgeon wrote:...
... and the sunshine should start to kick in from now.

John
Oh, I do admire an optimist :)

- Julian