Re: The vaccine
Posted: March 20th, 2021, 3:05 pm
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Several posts deleted for getting too political for this board.
Several posts deleted for getting too political for this board.
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In the First World War much of the optical glass came from Germany, so the Government set up an organisation to set up manufacture in the UK. I believe that the principal source of Type 1 Neutral glass for vials is Schott in Germany88V8 wrote:And I heard on the wireless that the Moderna vaccine we have ordered will be vialled in Spain. Will it then be ambushed by the EU...monabri wrote:...delivery of the Pfizer Biontec vaccine is dependent on them receiving a crucial material from Croda in Yorkshire. If the EU withholds vaccines then the UK might withhold supplies from Croda in retaliation.
What seems to have been forgotten by the EU at the outset, is that politicians are elected in National elections, and many electorates will be well peed off by the current fiasco.
Vaccine nationalism? Like in India? Of course!!!!
In the UK, we really should have our own capacity to make & pack vaccines from start to finish, without depending on a supply chain that evaporates when push comes to shove.
Easily said of course, someone has to pay for capex that may stand largely idle for long periods.
V8
Maybe you should substitute "should" for "would", Terry. The need for this was apparent to me quite some time ago. Now that we are not part of 'Europe, we need to reduce our dependency on Europe. Apart from the risks of dependency, which have rapidly become apparent, should we not for environmental reasons be trying to reduce the carbon effect of transporting goods between countries when we could perfectly well make them ourselves and provide jobs in the process?tjh290633 wrote:In the First World War much of the optical glass came from Germany, so the Government set up an organisation to set up manufacture in the UK. I believe that the principal source of Type 1 Neutral glass for vials is Schott in Germany88V8 wrote: And I heard on the wireless that the Moderna vaccine we have ordered will be vialled in Spain. Will it then be ambushed by the EU...
What seems to have been forgotten by the EU at the outset, is that politicians are elected in National elections, and many electorates will be well peed off by the current fiasco.
Vaccine nationalism? Like in India? Of course!!!!
In the UK, we really should have our own capacity to make & pack vaccines from start to finish, without depending on a supply chain that evaporates when push comes to shove.
Easily said of course, someone has to pay for capex that may stand largely idle for long periods.
V8
It would not take long to establish a source in the UK, should the need arise.
TJH
Even I have known for over 50 years that they are a chemical company in Goole, E. Yorks, with a very good reputation. I have toyed with the idea of buying their shares but never got around to it.PinkDalek wrote:gryffron wrote:How many had heard of Croda before?
As you asked and assuming that is Croda International plc, I have for a variety of reasons, not least they are listed.
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/sto ... ge?lang=en
I was told it hadn't been when I had my 2nd Pfizer jab and was asked if I wanted another copy. These things take time.Julian wrote:Thanks Julian.jfgw wrote: BNT162b2
Cheers,
Julian F. G. W.
Here’s the SPC with essentially the same caveat as I quoted from the AZ SPC...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _0_UK_.pdf
Of course these things can get updated. There’s probably a live database somewhere that I don’t know about.
- (another) Julian
I very much doubt that it would have been the SPC that you were being offered a copy of though, it's the PIL that is the "end user" documentation hence I assume that is what they were offering you a second copy of. That's basically the vaccine's version of the folded up bit of paper with instructions on it that you get inside every box of Asprin, Paracetamol, anti-histamine, topical steroid etc that you might buy in a shop, or any prescription medicine that you might get dispensed from a chemist. The SPC is the prescriber documentation and as such is to me the more interesting of the two documents since it's not aimed at the lay person.Bouleversee wrote:I was told it hadn't been when I had my 2nd Pfizer jab and was asked if I wanted another copy. These things take time.Julian wrote: Thanks Julian.
Here’s the SPC with essentially the same caveat as I quoted from the AZ SPC...
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... _0_UK_.pdf
Of course these things can get updated. There’s probably a live database somewhere that I don’t know about.
- (another) Julian
You on ADVFN?vagrantbrain wrote:Has anyone considered that the census is just a way to quality check the data from the tracking chips in the Gates super vaccine? Stopping at the half-way point would be a logical point to perform an audit to ensure they're working correctly. Any coincidence there was a record number of vaccinations last week to ensure we got to 50% of the adults before Census day?? Now there's a slowdown due to "supply issues" - more like a pause to allow the chips to be refined following the results of the Census before they vaccinate the other 50% of the population.
I would say more but they're watching me and nurse is coming.....
vagrantbrain wrote:Has anyone considered that the census is just a way to quality check the data from the tracking chips in the Gates super vaccine? Stopping at the half-way point would be a logical point to perform an audit to ensure they're working correctly. Any coincidence there was a record number of vaccinations last week to ensure we got to 50% of the adults before Census day?? Now there's a slowdown due to "supply issues" - more like a pause to allow the chips to be refined following the results of the Census before they vaccinate the other 50% of the population.
I would say more but they're watching me and nurse is coming.....
You are correct; it was the PIL but it was a 4 x A4 page doc. and contained information about storage etc. which can't have been aimed at the patients. I assumed that both types would have been updated at the same time if there had been any update.Julian wrote:I very much doubt that it would have been the SPC that you were being offered a copy of though, it's the PIL that is the "end user" documentation hence I assume that is what they were offering you a second copy of. That's basically the vaccine's version of the folded up bit of paper with instructions on it that you get inside every box of Asprin, Paracetamol, anti-histamine, topical steroid etc that you might buy in a shop, or any prescription medicine that you might get dispensed from a chemist. The SPC is the prescriber documentation and as such is to me the more interesting of the two documents since it's not aimed at the lay person.Bouleversee wrote: I was told it hadn't been when I had my 2nd Pfizer jab and was asked if I wanted another copy. These things take time.
I was out with one of my pharma friends on Friday and was quizzing her a lot on pharmacovigilance, I really should have asked about change control on PILs & SPCs as well. I've certainly vicariously (through her) lived through the development and signoff of the initial versions of quite a few PILSs and SPCs - a lot of angst and attention to detail tends to be involved from what I've experienced second hand regarding that process, but that's only for the initial version submitted as part of the approval process. I really have no idea how change control is handled post-approval (or in this case post emergency authorisation use) but given the rigour regarding the development of the original document I suspect the process of making changes is pretty rigorous and well controlled as well, both for the PIL and the SPC.
- Julian
Well, serves you right, you should know better than to wear that tin foil hatvagrantbrain wrote:Has anyone considered that the census is just a way to quality check the data from the tracking chips in the Gates super vaccine? Stopping at the half-way point would be a logical point to perform an audit to ensure they're working correctly. Any coincidence there was a record number of vaccinations last week to ensure we got to 50% of the adults before Census day?? Now there's a slowdown due to "supply issues" - more like a pause to allow the chips to be refined following the results of the Census before they vaccinate the other 50% of the population.
I would say more but they're watching me and nurse is coming.....
moorfield wrote: "normality" will be a long drawn out process I suspect. I drew the analogy of the phasing out of wartime rationing recently (*), I think we will still be here discussing covid in two years' time ... Certainly I would expect "tiers" and furlough to have been dropped; and office, schools, universities to be planning full returns by the summer. "Stadium events" may take longer, and international travel longer still. Does "normality" include clearing the backlog of all the cancelled and postponed health appointments? (And does it include clearing what we can't see - the national debt - which will take a generation to do and quite possibly a one-off windfall tax on all of us.) Masks and hand gels are here to stay, I hope at the very least out of good personal hygiene habits, some venues may continue to insist on them, some won't.
Remember Lord Sumption, you read that here first.Masks and social distancing could be in place for 10 YEARS - as long as Britain endured rationing after the Second World War, Lord Sumption claims
This is exactly how I see it too, but when I posted about the need to keep SA variant out of the UK for exactly the reasons you set out, I got slated by two other posters for being negative and told I should unquestioningly suck up the relentless Good News propaganda in the media on the vaccine front.Julian wrote:
I've had the AZ vaccine (first dose) and as long as these E484K-carrying variants remain relatively rare and controlled in the UK I'm perfectly happy with that especially a few weeks after I have had my second dose but if the SA or some other E484K-carrying variant becomes widespread in the UK I would go back to feeling quite significantly unprotected until I'd had a booster that demonstrated good efficacy against whatever new variant(s) had become widespread in the UK.
Thoughts?
- Julian
There's pretty encouraging and comprehensive data for the efficacy of the Pfizer and AZ vaccines against hospitalisation and death (and also against any symptomatic infection) in the current UK environment, i.e. against predominantly the original and the B.1.1.7 strains. That's in the analyses that were done in Scotland and separately in England looking at outcomes for people who had had at least the first dose and the numbers looked really good. Sorry, I have to get on to another task right now so don't have time to re-Google for the links but maybe someone else can provide them or I will later if I can find them again (I really should bookmark some of this stuff).vrdiver wrote:There have been lots of numbers bandied about, about how effective the various vaccines are against the various variants, but all that's happened is that I'm now somewhat confused about what level of protection the vaccines are able to offer.
Does anybody have data on how effective the vaccines are on stopping hospitalisation and/or death for the current variants? I'm not worried about the chances of being infected if the outcome of the infection doesn't require hospitalisation. I'm not worried about levels of protection on day 3 after the first jab, or any of the "work in progress" numbers (e.g. vaccine "X" is 60% effective after 19 days) since these are transitory; I'm more interested in the situation likely to be faced a couple of months after the second dose has been administered, as that is where most of the (adult) population will be, come Winter.
...
VRD