Coronavirus – opening letters and parcels

[Jonetc15]

Please could somebody kindly advise how to treat letters and parcels on delivery. I have read/heard various opinions, ranging from (a) there really isn’t a problem if you just use gloves to open the packet, to (b) leave everything in isolation, preferably waiting 72 hours before opening.

TIA
Jon

Moderator Message:
Discussion moved from DAK to Health & Wellbeing (leaving a link). - Chris

[swill453]

Personally I open the packet, dispose of the packaging, wash hands, then deal with the contents.

Scott.

[Lootman]

If it was materially possibly to catch the virus that easily then there would be a huge number of cases that were unexplainable. The virus would appear to be spreading almost randonly.

As it is most cases have happened as a result of a relatively large number of people in an enclosed space for a sustained time, enabling the virus to spread via droplets expelled while breathing, talking, laughing, singing, coughing, sneezing or exercising. Cruise ships, prisons, care homes, singing halls, gyms, nightclubs, crowd events etc.

I wash my hands after touching anything that enters my house from outside, and that's it.

[dealtn]

Not sure you will get a definitive "Does anyone know", but can I widen your spectrum further please, letting you know I don't even bother with gloves, and probably not wash my hands until the next time I am near a tap and think I should be washing them.

Doubt that helps!

My postman is content to handle far more letters and parcels than I do every day, and still accepts the occasional cup of tea, and whistles just as much as in the pre-Covid days.

[csearle]

One vulnerable lady I have visited for work leaves all her post outside her flat on the floor for two days in a form of quarantine before accepting them into her flat.

I just open mine. I wash my hands thoroughly when entering my flat. If I get it I get it. Life's a lottery anyway.

Chris

[Midsmartin]

To me it seems overly paranoid to worry about the post. There may be a danger if your postie coughs on your letter and then you open it and suck your fingers. I suspect the real risk of being infected by this route is vanishingly small.

[SalvorHardin]

Anything containing perishables gets opened immediately. Dump the packaging in the garage. Wash hands afterwards. Do not touch face, hair, etc. until I have washed.

Anything containing only non-perishables gets put to one side overnight. Wash hands afterwards. Do not touch face, hair, etc. until I have washed.

I take the view that the risk from packaging is very low. In light of that I know that I am being a little bit paranoid with the 24 hour quarantine, but I am in a high-risk group.

Everything I have read on the topic, and discovered during a conversation with a friend who is a biologist (crops, not humans), points towards the initial level of exposure to the Wuhan virus as being a major determinant of the intensity of the infection. A bit of virus on packaging IMHO poses a vastly lower risk than spending 20 minutes in close proximity to an infected person.

Most articles I've seen about the virus living for some time on various surfaces fail to mention that the ability of the virus to infect people decreases quite dramatically over time. Especially if the conditions vary over time (e.g. hot, ultraviolet light, parcels being thrown around)

[Julian]

For packages I tend to take delivered items straight to my "quarantine room" (an unused bedroom) and leave them there for at least a day. I then go back into the quarantine room to open the box or packaging in the room, carry the then-open box into the hallway and tip the contents onto the floor outside. I then throw the box back into the quarantine room. If it's a delivery I'm really impatient to open I do all of the above without the 24 hour wait, i.e. as soon as the package is delivered I take it into the quarantine room, open it, go into the hallway to tip the contents onto the floor, and then on to the rest of the steps just outlined.

After any interaction with the quarantine room I do not close the door after me, instead I go straight to a sink to thoroughly wash my hands. After washing my hands I tear off a piece of paper towel, spray cleaner on it, and use that to both wipe down the outer door handle of the quarantine room (I never touch the inner door handle anyway) and pull the door closed. Only after that do I then go and retrieve the contents of the package from the floor (assuming I'd just opened a package as opposed to leaving a new delivery in the room).

Periodically, when the quarantine room has been un-entered for at least a week hence any virus in there should have died, I go in and break down and dispose of the accumulated cardboard packaging.

For envelopes I just leave them in the quarantine room for 3 days then bring them out and treat them as normal. I receive no letters that I feel the need to read immediately whereas stuff I buy I am more impatient to get to hence my more rigorous treatment of letters on a "why not?" basis since I don't really care about the contents(*).

I don't do any of the above because I am massively paranoid about the virus, it's because when we first entered lockdown and I began to look for things to entertain me I thought that I might as well develop protocols more for my own distraction/amusement than anything else and the above procedures really aren't very inconvenient so I continue to use them. I'm not always that diligent about going in regularly to break down the cardboard though so there's an awful lot of old packaging in there right now to get rid of probably dating back about a month. I really must sort that out early next week.

- Julian

(*) As an aside, my volume of physical mail is probably 10% of what it was pre-lockdown. I get about 1 letter a week now at most vs an average of one a day before all this started. Unwelcome mailshots seem to have died out almost completely for me and a lot of organisations I did (and still do) have a relationship with seem to feel the need to write to me far less often which is great. Maybe with lots of people working from home it is harder for organisations to do mailshots. I really hope this state of affairs continues in the years to come.

[Julian]

Everything I have read on the topic, and discovered during a conversation with a friend who is a biologist (crops, not humans), points towards the initial level of exposure to the Wuhan virus as being a major determinant of the intensity of the infection. A bit of virus on packaging IMHO poses a vastly lower risk than spending 20 minutes in close proximity to an infected person.

Most articles I've seen about the virus living for some time on various surfaces fail to mention that the ability of the virus to infect people decreases quite dramatically over time. Especially if the conditions vary over time (e.g. hot, ultraviolet light, parcels being thrown around)

On the first point - absolutely. It's a slightly long read but someone pointed me towards an excellent article that emphasises that this virus isn't some sort of sci-fi virus, get a single particle on your skin and you're infected. For SARS-CoV2 it is the amount of cumulative exposure that matters or, as the article puts it, "Remember the formula: Successful Infection = Exposure to Virus x Time".

Full text of article is here - https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-ri ... avoid-them

On the second point, also agreed. That is one reason why I am less concerned about the contents of a package. If an Amazon delivery has taken 2 days to reach me that is at least 2 days where any virus on the contents has been isolated inside the outer packaging and started to die off.

- Julian

[Jonetc15]

For packages I tend to take delivered items straight to my "quarantine room" (an unused bedroom) and leave them there for at least a day. I then go back into the quarantine room to open the box or packaging in the room, carry the then-open box into the hallway and tip the contents onto the floor outside. I then throw the box back into the quarantine room. If it's a delivery I'm really impatient to open I do all of the above without the 24 hour wait, i.e. as soon as the package is delivered I take it into the quarantine room, open it, go into the hallway to tip the contents onto the floor, and then on to the rest of the steps just outlined.

After any interaction with the quarantine room I do not close the door after me, instead I go straight to a sink to thoroughly wash my hands. After washing my hands I tear off a piece of paper towel, spray cleaner on it, and use that to both wipe down the outer door handle of the quarantine room (I never touch the inner door handle anyway) and pull the door closed. Only after that do I then go and retrieve the contents of the package from the floor (assuming I'd just opened a package as opposed to leaving a new delivery in the room).

Periodically, when the quarantine room has been un-entered for at least a week hence any virus in there should have died, I go in and break down and dispose of the accumulated cardboard packaging.

For envelopes I just leave them in the quarantine room for 3 days then bring them out and treat them as normal. I receive no letters that I feel the need to read immediately whereas stuff I buy I am more impatient to get to hence my more rigorous treatment of letters on a "why not?" basis since I don't really care about the contents(*).

I don't do any of the above because I am massively paranoid about the virus, it's because when we first entered lockdown and I began to look for things to entertain me I thought that I might as well develop protocols more for my own distraction/amusement than anything else and the above procedures really aren't very inconvenient so I continue to use them. I'm not always that diligent about going in regularly to break down the cardboard though so there's an awful lot of old packaging in there right now to get rid of probably dating back about a month. I really must sort that out early next week.

- Julian

(*) As an aside, my volume of physical mail is probably 10% of what it was pre-lockdown. I get about 1 letter a week now at most vs an average of one a day before all this started. Unwelcome mailshots seem to have died out almost completely for me and a lot of organisations I did (and still do) have a relationship with seem to feel the need to write to me far less often which is great. Maybe with lots of people working from home it is harder for organisations to do mailshots. I really hope this state of affairs continues in the years to come.

As someone in the shielded/vulnerable category I greatly appreciate all the previous posts, and especially Julian’s. I tend to be in the hyper-cautious category so it was a very interesting discussion.

I hope that it’s not OT if I ask about a related issue - newspapers. I don’t think that it merits a new thread (and it may sound paranoid to raise it all...).

I am tired of reading my papers on-line and may well get them delivered. They will probably only be handled at the newsagent’s and by the youth delivering them. One suggestion that I’ve heard is to use gloves just for the front and back pages - in case someone has coughed or sneezed on them - and keep them in one particular place. I hardly dare ask for comments, but you’re friendly folk so I’ll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

ATB

Jon

[gryffron]

I am tired of reading my papers on-line and may well get them delivered. They will probably only be handled at the newsagent’s and by the youth delivering them. One suggestion that I’ve heard is to use gloves just for the front and back pages - in case someone has coughed or sneezed on them - and keep them in one particular place. I hardly dare ask for comments, but you’re friendly folk so I’ll look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Well assuming you don't want to read yesterday's paper, what you have suggested is pretty much the only option. Although you need to remove the outer pages after reading them. Otherwise you could continue to pick up contamination from them.

The good news is that newspaper is pretty absorbent so should kill covid pretty quickly. Unlike, say, the gaffa tape used on Julian's parcels, where the virus can survive much longer.

Gryff

[dealtn]

I hardly dare ask for comments

Having the butler iron it should kill any germs surely?

[quelquod]

I wash my hands when I remember and don’t worry overmuch about deliveries. IMHO if they were a significant source the R number wouldn’t be falling nor the number of new cases be so low. More chance of slipping at the sink and banging my head.

[Dod101]

I have had my daily newspaper delivered throughout the crisis and so far without taking any precautions I seem to have survived.

Dod

[Hypster]

I agree with the emphasis on hand washing.

Remember though, the risk is not confined to just you and the postie, or the Amazon worker who sent it two days ago. The postie will be touching countless letterboxes, door bells, and gates on his or her round. All it takes is one infected person with poor hand hygiene to have touched one of those surfaces for the postie to pick it up and continue the transmission on the round. Wash your hands like the baked potato says...

[UncleEbenezer]

Alternative thought on newspapers.

Does tired of reading them online actually mean tired of staring at a computer screen to read them?

If so, you might benefit from switching to an e-ink screen. Those are mostly found on e-readers, and many people find them easier on the eyes than a regular screen. Just take care what you get: some devices have blurred the distinction between e-reader and multimedia entertainment, so for example the kindle fire is just a small tablet without the advantages of a reader.

[dealtn]

I agree with the emphasis on hand washing.

Remember though, the risk is not confined to just you and the postie, or the Amazon worker who sent it two days ago. The postie will be touching countless letterboxes, door bells, and gates on his or her round. All it takes is one infected person with poor hand hygiene to have touched one of those surfaces for the postie to pick it up and continue the transmission on the round. Wash your hands like the baked potato says...

So how many postman have caught Covid-19, or died from it? They aren't exactly a recurring news item in the media (same as supermarket workers). This suggests this source of risk is extremely low. As you say they "will be touching countless letterboxes, door bells, and gates..." you only have to touch your own. That is a measure of how extremely small the risk is. So small you are more likely I would think to slip and injure yourself in retrieving any post, parcels, or newspapers.

If you are "vulnerable" or "shielding" I am not saying you shouldn't be ignorant of the consequences, but the risks are very small.

[servodude]

So how many postman have caught Covid-19, or died from it? They aren't exactly a recurring news item in the media (same as supermarket workers). This suggests this source of risk is extremely low. As you say they "will be touching countless letterboxes, door bells, and gates..." you only have to touch your own. That is a measure of how extremely small the risk is. So small you are more likely I would think to slip and injure yourself in retrieving any post, parcels, or newspapers.

If you are "vulnerable" or "shielding" I am not saying you shouldn't be ignorant of the consequences, but the risks are very small.

Indeed.
Wouldn't suggest you hide from the postie by crouching behind the door though; if he shouts through the letterbox looking for you, you might get a dose!

-sd

[Hypster]

I don’t think I expressed my point clearly. Let me try again.

The fact that an Amazon parcel has taken two days to arrive, or that the postie is wearing gloves does not mean that the risk of picking up the virus from surfaces of the mail has diminished.

My point was that an infected person elsewhere can transmit the virus to you without the two of you ever meeting, via the posties gloved hands. And without the postie getting the virus themselves.

[dealtn]

I don’t think I expressed my point clearly. Let me try again.

The fact that an Amazon parcel has taken two days to arrive, or that the postie is wearing gloves does not mean that the risk of picking up the virus from surfaces of the mail has diminished.

My point was that an infected person elsewhere can transmit the virus to you without the two of you ever meeting, via the posties gloved hands. And without the postie getting the virus themselves.

Yes I get your point. Do you get mine?

A person receiving such a parcel is just one of many millions taking place. Given there are many millions taking place, and that the people most exposed to this, such as postmen and Amazon delivery drivers who will have taken literally 1,000s of deliveries during the lockdown period, aren't regularly being seen on the news or being spoken about as being particularly exposed, getting infected, dying etc. unlike some groups, it isn't hard to justify the claim that infection through this medium is extremely unlikely.

If it is extremely unlikely for someone doing 1,000s of such interactions consistently throughout the lockdown period and through the time when the virus was at its peak in the community, it must be extremely, extremely unlikely for the recipient of a single transaction to be exposed, and as a result get infected through this medium. I would expect the same to apply to newspapers.

Your postman or Amazon delivery driver is more likely to be injured that day in a road accident delivering his parcels than catching the virus from your parcel. I doubt he even considers the possibility of that road accident risk as he goes about his work.