Ticket Touts

[paulnumbers]

Yes, I understand the problem for "punters", I don't see why the state should be trying to intervene. If a business is not looking after the interests of it's end users, so be it.

https://iea.org.uk/blog/in-defence-of-ticket-touts

sometimes the event organiser IS trying to look after the interests of its punters. There was a time AIUI when rugby international tickets were kept at the price they were to make them affordable for ordinary fans of the game to be able to afford them. The "real market prices" being inflated by interest it was argued by those that weren't "ordinary fans". That doesn't make the lower face value ticket price being "wrong" as it dealt with a non profit maximising model.

didds

I have no problem with a company wanting to sell a product below market rate, and taking steps to achieve that. Off the top of my head, they could insist you bring the original credit card & passport with you. My issue is why do we have to police this at the state level and put the costs on the general tax payer, rather than leaving it to the relevant business to sort out?

[didds]

I have no problem with a company wanting to sell a product below market rate, and taking steps to achieve that. Off the top of my head, they could insist you bring the original credit card & passport with you.

As others and I have shown this is not always a valid answer. I appreciate it is an attempt to deal with the issue.

My issue is why do we have to police this at the state level and put the costs on the general tax payer, rather than leaving it to the relevant business to sort out?

That's a fair call. The state will eventually get dragged in if the touting ends up in fraudulent activity of course ie selling tickets that cannot actually be used eg via the CC/ID requirements. Frankly given it is now illegal to tout football tickets, why that wasn;t expanded at the time to include all tickets is beyond me. Or maybe cynically thinking - it isn't on reflection...

didds

[Slarti]

I have no problem with a company wanting to sell a product below market rate, and taking steps to achieve that. Off the top of my head, they could insist you bring the original credit card & passport with you. My issue is why do we have to police this at the state level and put the costs on the general tax payer, rather than leaving it to the relevant business to sort out?

The reason that the politicians always get involved.

Votes.

If you don't make an attempt to sort this I'll make a big fuss about it at the next election. Or
If we make an attempt to sort this we can shout about how good we are for the electorate at the next election.

Slarti

[melonfool]

In the news today talking about making it illegal to use automated systems to buy nearly all the tickets for shows and resell for vast profits.

Wouldn't it be easier to print your name and credit card number on the ticket and require you to present the card and photo ID at the ticket barrier?

Or are the venues secretly quite happy with the current system? ( and participate )

Most of the gigs I go to do that - you have to bring photo ID, the cc and the email confirmation.

Been ages since I've been anywhere that didn't ask for ID and say 'tickets not transferable'.

It is a pain if you buy a ticket and then can't go - I have two tickets for a gig in July but will probably only be able to use one, so if I pass the other on it has to be someone who will arrive with me.

Mel

[youfoolishboy]

didds
just noticed your reply good point her new card arrived last week another phone call to Ticketmaster is required I feel.

[bionichamster]

I rather object to the idea that I could by something and then not be able to sell it to someone else should I change my mind or should circumstance change, however I also think that the whole secondary ticket market is out of control. It's not just the online systemI've queued for a few gigs in recent times, getting to the theatre an hour or two before opening only to find people who've been queing since early hours (chainrs and flasks all round), turns out that these people were all purchasing the maximum alloted number of tickets specifically to sell on and do it frequently.

I think one solution would to make it an offence to sell tickets for more than say 110% of their face value (including booking fee), thus allowing people who've changed their mind or who can't attend to legitimately pass on their tickets and recoup their cost but hopefully keeping any potential profit low enough to deter most touts.

BH

[melonfool]

I rather object to the idea that I could by something and then not be able to sell it to someone else should I change my mind or should circumstance change, however I also think that the whole secondary ticket market is out of control. It's not just the online systemI've queued for a few gigs in recent times, getting to the theatre an hour or two before opening only to find people who've been queing since early hours (chainrs and flasks all round), turns out that these people were all purchasing the maximum alloted number of tickets specifically to sell on and do it frequently.

I think one solution would to make it an offence to sell tickets for more than say 110% of their face value (including booking fee), thus allowing people who've changed their mind or who can't attend to legitimately pass on their tickets and recoup their cost but hopefully keeping any potential profit low enough to deter most touts.

BH

I get off the Tube at Victoria, opposite the theatre showing Wicked - there is always a queue and that is before 8.30am.

I agree, it should be illegal to sell for more than a small amount over face value. The band I like has a ticket exchange on their Facebook page and they only allow people to sell at face value.

Mel

[didds]

I think one solution would to make it an offence to sell tickets for more than say 110% of their face value (including booking fee), thus allowing people who've changed their mind or who can't attend to legitimately pass on their tickets and recoup their cost but hopefully keeping any potential profit low enough to deter most touts.

BH

why not only 100% of the ticket value?

Or even 90% to dissuade the (very few I am sure) that might be buying tickets on the off chance they may be able to go but in the knowledge that if they can't after all they can sell them for a profit anyway? One would hope that a genuine fan wouldn't look to profit from a genuine fan anyway of course!
But this would deter people from taking tickets out of the market for those that have definite plans.

Understood of course sometimes life messes such plans around etc.

didds

[melonfool]

I think one solution would to make it an offence to sell tickets for more than say 110% of their face value (including booking fee), thus allowing people who've changed their mind or who can't attend to legitimately pass on their tickets and recoup their cost but hopefully keeping any potential profit low enough to deter most touts.

BH

why not only 100% of the ticket value?

Or even 90% to dissuade the (very few I am sure) that might be buying tickets on the off chance they may be able to go but in the knowledge that if they can't after all they can sell them for a profit anyway? One would hope that a genuine fan wouldn't look to profit from a genuine fan anyway of course!
But this would deter people from taking tickets out of the market for those that have definite plans.

Understood of course sometimes life messes such plans around etc.

didds

Never have understood the term 'genuine fan', to be honest - surely you can buy the ticket even if you hate the band? And sell it whether you love them or not, to whoever you want. Surely you can be a 'genuine fan' and still be a rip-off merchant?

It is a term regularly bandied (yes, pun intended) about on the fan forum I use, mainly as an insult if you say you don't like something the band did, or you try to sell a ticket or a T shirt - you are then not 'a genuine fan'.

Mind you, dating websites are full of 'genuine blokes' so who knows what 'genuine' really means these days!

Mel

[Redmires]

For the few of us who still have scruples there's always

http://www.scarletmist.com

[droopsnoot]

With all the recent talk about ticket prices, I feel slightly relieved that I am sufficiently out of touch with modern music that when I go to see the band I generally go to see, the only thing I have to worry about is maintaining a balance between making sure I get a ticket before the gig sells out, and not buying one too soon so as to not look like a "bought my ticket within five minutes of them going on sale" obsessive. All I needed last week at two gigs was the ticket itself to get in, no ID, no CC, no nothing.

What does annoy me, even before we get to secondary ticket sales sites, is how the primary ticket sales sites like Ticketmaster, See and some others cannot sell two tickets for two separate gigs, but consolidate postage. I resent paying £4.95 P&P for them to stick them in a basic envelope in first class post to start with, but to have to pay it twice because I want to go to two different venues is even more annoying.

I'd imagine it's at least in the interests of the artists to try to deal with the problem - only so many of their fans can afford (or are willing) to pay several times face value for tickets, so that will lead to half-empty concert halls. The artist won't be making anything from the extra price of the ticket, so to them it doesn't matter that the few tickets sold went at a premium. In turn that'll start to affect live music at that level, which will backfire on the agencies and venues, so they'd also have a reason to act.

I imagine the widely-publicised Ed Sheeran charity gig situation has helped to bring things to a head, and it does seem quite seedy that someone is prepared to pull that kind of a rip-off for a charity concert. Seems that people have no shame these days. I'm all for private enterprise and I'm not one of those people that complains whenever a business tries to - shock horror! - make a profit for itself. But there's a time and a place.

[bionichamster]

why not only 100% of the ticket value?

Or even 90% to dissuade the (very few I am sure) that might be buying tickets on the off chance they may be able to go but in the knowledge that if they can't after all they can sell them for a profit anyway? One would hope that a genuine fan wouldn't look to profit from a genuine fan anyway of course!

I suggested 110% to cover the often exhorbitant booking fees and other associated costs. Why not allow people to at least recoup the true cost of purchasing their ticket?

Never have understood the term 'genuine fan', to be honest - surely you can buy the ticket even if you hate the band? And sell it whether you love them or not, to whoever you want. Surely you can be a 'genuine fan' and still be a rip-off merchant?

I suspect what most people mean by 'genuine fan' is someone who really genuinely likes and enjoys the artist in question, as opposed to someone who is indifferent to the artist but has for example been handed a corporate freebie or equivalent, or just has the wherewithal to pay for a relatively expensive ticket for an artist they aren't that fussed about and might end up spending half the night in the bar/on their smartphone or leave early when they are bored *believe me I've known a few serial gig attendees who have exhibited such an attitude, most poseurs who wanted to be able to say they been at a gig but often barely saw/heard much of it, and certainly NEVER arrived to see any support band, god forbid!)
An interesting related aspect of this in recent years has been the rise of the festival as an event where people pay to go to the event quite often before they even know who is playing, by the time some artists are announced as appearing many of the available tickets have long gone. What it means potentially is that a fair number of people who end up watching many of the bands aren't really that bothered about who they are watching, while a fair number of people who would really have liked to have been there aren't because they weren't going to buy a ticket before knowing if someone they actually wanted to see is playing or they can't afford the inflated secondry market prices. Many music fans are young people who don't neccesarily have the funds even if they have the enthusiasm.
Of course any one has the right to buy a ticket and they have the right to be indifferent to the artist once they arrive, or leave early or read a book while the performance is on. However arguably it might be a better atmospheere if everyone who was there really wanted to be there and relished the experience.

However complaints about genuine fans and ticket accessibility are not new. I have a framed page from a 1973 copy of Melody Maker, on the back of the page in the frame is the letters page which contains this particular nugget, quoted in full:

I'm getting sick and tired of reading about the problems of obtaining concert tickets when the answer is as simple as that put forward by R Glover (Mailbag Nov 3) and many more before him, suggesting coupons with LP's
the latest disappointment is the short Who tour. As a dedicated fan since the start of their success I am disgusted to find myself yet again unable to secure any tickets, while the people who live near the usual pattern of venues take all the tickets whether true fans or not.

I sometimes wonder if Mr/Mrs Neller is satisfied with how things have panned out so that in some cases people with a credit card and a decent internet connection from pretty much anywhere in the country quite possibly stand more chance of obtaining a ticket to a gig than someone living local to the venue...even a "true fan"

Better or worse? Careful what you wish for!

BH

[melonfool]

I sometimes wonder if Mr/Mrs Neller is satisfied with how things have panned out so that in some cases people with a credit card and a decent internet connection from pretty much anywhere in the country quite possibly stand more chance of obtaining a ticket to a gig than someone living local to the venue...even a "true fan"

Better or worse? Careful what you wish for!

BH

...and without a job, as the tickets often go on sale 9am on a weekday, so those of us with jobs have trouble getting them*. Those without jobs surely cannot afford them...so the touts buy them all.

*I have spent many mornings pretending to be busy while pressing refresh on my browser with my credit card hidden under the keyboard just waiting for the opportunity to buy the tickets!

Mel

[didds]

I suggested 110% to cover the often exhorbitant booking fees and other associated costs. Why not allow people to at least recoup the true cost of purchasing their ticket?

That's fair enough. I understand your point better now.

didds