The Lemon Fool

I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

(she has pre-paid the tax, by my calculation she is owed a £12 refund)

I don't have an easy answer on this. In the long term you will need to find a way of getting through the gateway security so if you do a paper return to get through this year you will still need at some stage to get her identity authenticated.

This, of course, is more of an issue relating to the way the gateway works than anything specific to SA.

I am working moreso on the newer systems, but those still use the Gateway for underlying authentication.

This may have some help

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums/

However, you may be best having a medium to long term plan of getting through the new authentication and in the short term doing a paper return.

johnhemming wrote:In the long term you will need to find a way of getting through the gateway security so if you do a paper return to get through this year you will still need at some stage to get her identity authenticated.

Why? I have been doing only paper returns for decades with no issue.

I have had no need to use their online system, have an online account, use a "gateway" nor have I needed to furnish any identification.

Lootman wrote:Why? I have been doing only paper returns for decades with no issue.

I have had no need to use their online system, have an online account, use a "gateway" nor have I needed to furnish any identification.

Me too. For several years the government gateway has refused to accept my identification for tax returns, despite their acknowledging that I do exist and their being happy to cash my cheques.

A question about the duration of my existing mobile phone contract, where their system refused to accept any of the possible answers, resulted in my registration being rejected. I've therefore given up and will submit paper tax returns for the foreseeable future (as advised by their IT department).

Lootman wrote:I have had no need to use their online system, have an online account, use a "gateway" nor have I needed to furnish any identification.

It does depend substantially on what income people have. If people have income from self employment or rent then there are some complications, but simply for the tax year 2023-24 there will need to be an electronic submission.

HMRC have just created the facilities to submit some additional information, but as I understand it the requirement to use electronic systems will not exist for the other income beyond self-employment and rent.

The limitations also are for people with a turnover in excess of 10K.

However, things do change and I would suggest people think carefully about whether they wish to ensure that they have some mechanism for securely sending data to the government. My own view is that it is worth doing this and ensuring the facilities are in place. People will then have the option to do this.

However, as I understand it the facility for provision of a paper submission will remain for a while.

It is quite pathetic that the HMRC online system still does not support all the pages of the tax return. My son in law is a vicar and has to file a paper return because the online system does not handle the Minister of Religion pages!

JohnB wrote:I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

I did my SA tax return on 31 December, and just logged on to check that all had gone through. The only extra asks from last year for me are
- How do you want notices sent (post or in the Personal Tax Account)
- Something else which I forgot what it was , so logged back in and it just skipped past it and the choice post/account above, so sorry. If it comes back to me I'll post again !

But there was no request at all for passport or credit check.

If it's any help, I went in through https://www.access.service.gov.uk/login/signin/creds and do not give permission for a 7-day phone code.

Mike

scrumpyjack wrote:It is quite pathetic that the HMRC online system still does not support all the pages of the tax return. My son in law is a vicar and has to file a paper return because the online system does not handle the Minister of Religion pages!

That won't exist in the new system as yet nor the special pages for MPs.

I checked my own account and wasn't asked extra security questions either. I have raised a formal complaint with HMRC and posted on the forum John mentioned

JohnB wrote:I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

(she has pre-paid the tax, by my calculation she is owed a £12 refund)

I share your feelings about the government gateway. I had many problems getting through the awful authentication questions (credit ref agency questions) with/on behalf of my GF to get her pension forecast.
see: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=27035
Seemingly inane questions about long forgotten mail order catalogue credit facilities which she could only guess at. Eventually, having blown it for 24 hours at least 3 times, on the 4th attempt allowed each 24 hour period, we managed to get through somehow. If you keep impecabbly good admin records/memories, and have standard/typical behaviour, it's easy. But with the frequency that people change mobile phone contracts and bank accounts these days (and are encouraged to do so), the idiot questions on the governemnt gateway check beggar belief. The alternative authentication (gov.uk verify) is apparently not much better either.

mike wrote:

JohnB wrote:I tried to login in to the Government Gateway to do Mum's self assessment tax return, as I have the last few years. This time it asks for 2 extra security items, passport (nope) and credit check (no credit history), and no alternative. 55 minutes on the phone to HMRC and they refuse to help or give daft suggestions, suggesting she completes a paper return. How can I fight this?

I did my SA tax return on 31 December, and just logged on to check that all had gone through. The only extra asks from last year for me are
- How do you want notices sent (post or in the Personal Tax Account)
- Something else which I forgot what it was , so logged back in and it just skipped past it and the choice post/account above, so sorry. If it comes back to me I'll post again !

But there was no request at all for passport or credit check.

Same here. Reading this thread I just logged on simply to check for these changes. Nothing. Just the same as it has been for several years.

"passport"? "credit reference agencies"? Are they using GOV.UK Verify rather than Government Gateway login?

No i am not

...Then it's a mystery! It sounds more like registration (and that for GOV.UK Verify!) to me than normal GG login.

The only significant change I am aware of, brought in a few years ago, was the introduction of 3Factor Authentication - the PIN to your phone.
I've had a GG account since... I've no idea. The 2000s? The late 1990s?

This account allowed me to do a tax return in jan and an advance payment in March. This is a new requirement locking us out of the account

...If you are doing your Mum's return are you logging on as an 'Agent' via some non-personal Digital Tax Account? Because none of the above things are required on my own Personal Digital Tax Account. Unless something is being phased in gradually, but I have heard nothing of this other than this thread and it does not presently apply to my account. I cannot see why it would.

No i am not. Clearly my 91yo housebound mother is viewed to be a higher fraud risk than you

This may be relevant: https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums/cu ... 0d3a7ed2f2

This extra verification was brought in several years ago so I'm surprised there are any accounts where it's just being applied now. I noted the issue back in January 2017 but I'm aware it was introduced in 2016 (but not made immediately mandatory). Verifying via a UK passport is easiest, if you have one. The credit check, a function of one of the credit agencies, just produces daft questions if you don't happen to regularly sign up to some credit agreements. If not it will likely ask you to recall some event of 15-30 years ago, or concerning something which they have on file which may not be correct. If you fail that test a couple of times you get locked out for a period. Not useful if one's trying to file by a deadline.

BobGe wrote:This extra verification was brought in several years ago so I'm surprised there are any accounts where it's just being applied now. I noted the issue back in January 2017 but I'm aware it was introduced in 2016 (but not made immediately mandatory). Verifying via a UK passport is easiest, if you have one. The credit check, a function of one of the credit agencies, just produces daft questions if you don't happen to regularly sign up to some credit agreements. If not it will likely ask you to recall some event of 15-30 years ago, or concerning something which they have on file which may not be correct. If you fail that test a couple of times you get locked out for a period. Not useful if one's trying to file by a deadline.

Under a variation of this scheme I was asked "what is the approximate balance of your mortgage?" with a multiple choice set of figures.

Finding out the information would take me 30 seconds if they only told me which of the two mortgages they were on about, or didn't provide a set of answers where two of the values provided matched the two mortgage balances.

IIRC this was Lloyds Bank and I ended up having to go to a branch with passport+bill to re-enable online access and register a complaint.

Pochisoldi