Not quite FIRE - more of a downshift

[pds2008]

Afternoon all - I thought I would share my musings on this board based on my personal circumstances.

I am 54 and single, no kids, mortgage or other debts. I have lived and worked in Scotland for the last 25 years but am originally from the south of England - all my family are in the south as well. An opportunity has arisen to take voluntary redundancy which I have grabbed with both hands and am now waiting to depart next spring. I will also sell up and move back to the south coast.

I will access my occupational pension at 60 and my state pension (hopefully) at 67. Between now and then I can live off dividends and some tax free savings without jeopardising the bulk of my investments which will continue to provide income and a nest egg after proper retirement age is reached.

I currently work in a management position which provides me with no motivation other than the collection of a salary. I do not live particularly frugally but I have always lived within my means. I know I will not enjoy the same level of income when I move south but I can adjust and do not feel at all concerned about this change.

I will be looking for a part time job and may well do some volunteering on top of this - mainly for the social interaction that work gives you, but a modes additional income would be welcome to reduce dipping into investment returns or capital.

My friends are very sceptical about this proposed change - they do not seem to get why I am doing this, or how I can adjust to a new type of lifestyle. My family are supportive but I am starting to worry whether they too have their doubts.

I guess I am looking for examples of anyone else's experiences in similar situations. I have been deliberately vague about details of my finances as I do not doubt the mathematics of the move - it is more about the change for me as a person.

Any comments or input would be welcome.

[Raptor]

Retired at 49 (first time), had been divorced for 16 years, had small mortgage, some savings, a small portfolio. Got a golden good-bye that would tie me over for at least a year. Took pension from an old employee at 50, with a lump sum that was invested in HYP-ish portfolio. Started working just to stop the boredom, then tax-man came after me for a "failed" business venture, so decided to go full-time but in a less demanding and paying job. Family knew that I had not been happy with work for years it was only the large amounts of dosh they insisted on paying me (and the travel to foreign fields) that kept me going, so they showed no surprise, although daughter only gave me 6 months before I went back (that never happened).
Decide nearly 3 years ago to try again. Now 63, working part-time and volunteering. Don't need to but enjoy the interaction. Intend to leave my SIPP and current pension untouched for as long as possible, but will take state pension at (currently) 67.

I would say go for it but beware something not going to plan (in my case the TAX man came calling).

Raptor.

[TUK020]

There is a brilliant article by Peter Drucker on "Managing Oneself" that is very worthwhile reading. This covers a very broad range of topics, in an insightful and illuminating way. It touches on the subject of transition to retirement, and raises the interesting perspective of looking at it as a change in career rather than just "stopping doing stuff".

I have no doubt that you can make the transition, and make a success of it,
It is worth spending time thinking about what you are moving towards, rather than what you are moving away from.
best of luck
TUK020

http://academic.udayton.edu/lawrenceulr ... neself.pdf

[thebarns]

Go for it !

I think I will be retiring next year, just having turned 53 - my personal circumstances are different, being married and 2 kids at school, one not yet even 10 !

So I face different issues but both triggered by retirement a change in the previous main career, however it is described.

The bulk of our healthiest and fittest years are behind us, so go for what you want to try.

If it doesn't work, there is absolutely nothing to stop you moving back.

[tieresias]

I am in a similar position to the OP except that I have kids, but they have all now graduated, and my return home was from Saudi Arabia, not Scotland.

Financial Independence was declared this April and, since then,I've spent quite a lot of time travelling - a two month road trip across Europe and a month in Central Asia - and intend to do more - Latin America over the autumn and winter and then the Caucasus, China and Mongolia next spring and summer. I've also spent about a month in total pet-sitting for various relatives so that they can go on holiday. And, early on, I put quite a lot of time into structuring my investments that I couldn't do while I was non-resident, but that takes up little time since April.

Financially things are going okay and, so far, the natural income from my investment portfolio has exceeded my expenditure. Although I have a deferred occupational pension which I get in full when I'm 60 and a couple of DC pension pots, there doesn't seem be any need to take them early (I'm 55 now).

The big change for me has been in my social life. In Saudi, perhaps surprisingly, I had a wide range of friends and acquaintances, mostly in their 30's and 40's, mostly single and mostly well-educated and well-travelled. Back home, I am having real difficulty finding like-minded friends. My son and his fiancee live in my house, so I have daily human contact and, in any case, I don't suffer from loneliness, but it would be nice to find people who don't just look blank if I mention Lithuania or say "Borat" if I say Kazakhstan (Kazakhstan is nothing like it is portrayed!) or even to discuss investments with, without them telling me the stock market is gambling and then switching off or telling me how much their house is worth. I am not at all interested in sports or drama and I never watch TV, so that doesn't help!

So, between travels, I'm finding that I spend a lot of time on social media. TLF for one, although I rarely post, I do try to stay abreast of topics I'm interested in. FaceBook and occasionally LinkedIn, largely staying in contact with my friends back in Saudi. I've considered volunteering (and maybe even looking for a new wife!), but the fact that I am away so much means I could offer no continuity.

It is, of course, my choice and mine alone, to travel while I'm still healthy and, while I'm travelling, finding companions is easier, although of course, they are transitory friends usually.

I don't know if any of the above is of any use pds2008, but that's my experience so far!

Paul

[SalvorHardin]

I retired 14 years ago, just before turning 40, in part because my income was going to halve following the end of the pension misselling review but mostly because I could. Although I used to be a Pensions Actuary I don't have any pension funds of any great value. Instead I live off my investments (a 1% yield is enough for me to live on).

Keep yourself occupied. I've seen many people fade away after retiring because their job defined them (even if they didn't like it) and without the structure and social life it provided they were lost. These people find the idea of early retirement to be a bit scary. The first thing I did after deciding to retire was to was sign up for an Open University Law degree; I've done two more degrees since then, am part-way through another and am planning to do more. I read a lot (I subscribe to 14 monthly magazines, plus The Economist (weekly) and buy at least one book a week).

Consider learning a foreign language to a conversational level - it really does stretch the brain, particularly if it takes you out of your comfort zone.

Retirees can get buy with a greatly reduced income - it is surprising to some how much you spend purely because of work (travel, parking, clothes, convenience food, etc.). I recommend tracking your spending before and after retiring. I still note what I spend in 15 different categories (for tracking boozy nights out I note what cash I go out with and subtract what's left in the morning).

I did my travelling and other wild stuff in my early forties. Doing this earlier is better because we slow down and get ill as we age. Nowadays I lead a more sedentary life. My social life hasn't changed all that much, I used to work in London with a weekly commute to the rural West Country where I still live (I am thinking of moving to Canada but that's another story). Most of my friends believe that I now work from home (I do but it's my investing rather than Actuarial); it's best to disguise very early retirement because otherwise some people may see you as a lottery winner).

Keep fit. I walk about one hour a day whilst listening to my MP3 player, often to economics podcasts (I strongly recommend "EconTalk",which is free market Austrian)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EconTalk

Above all enjoy it. Every workday morning I rejoice in not having to commute!

[nmdhqbc]

My brief story...

Age 20-27: High paid pharmaceutical contractor. Lot's of money, lots of stress so I quit with a couple of heavily mortgaged properties. They were both rented out and made decent profits some years but generally broke even.

Age 27-29: Lived frugally off savings while I worked out what I wanted to do with my life.

Age 29-36: Savings got low so moved into a shared house to save cash and had various minimum wage jobs. Stress free, and physical work. Felt so much better at the end of a shift than I ever did sat at 2 computers programming clinical trial results. And I forgot the work the second I left the building. Plus I got fit doing it. Sold the 2 houses in the latter years and invested in IT's and funds. Not much income made but the wonders of gearing and a nicely placed new train station made a decent capital gain (by my standards anyway).

Age 36-37 (now): Reached FIRE (living of dividends) a year ish ago, quit work and in the process of selling a flat I bought with house number 2's sale proceeds. I'll then be off living in my caravan until I get sick or bored of that. Seems to be a cheap way of living in more expensive areas of the country and moving around a lot. Even London (well as close as the sites get to it) caravan sites aren't that pricey. I never like to stay in one area too long so I'll be avoiding buying any more property from now on even when the nomadics get old.

[JohnB]

9 months after FIRE at 48 and no regrets. My friends and family all knew I hated my job (I told them enough!), and gave no negative reactions to my comments that I had enough money to never work again.

I started 2 lots of conservation volunteering, and edit a few wikis, otherwise I fritter my time away. It was a bit boring over winter, but once I could get out in my garden and visit other people's, time flies past. I think I'd be on holiday for 8 weeks this year, it would be more without my caring responsibilities.

I think if you are a driven, ambitious person downshift is hard, but its not if you like to potter.

[andyalan10]

I guess I am looking for examples of anyone else's experiences in similar situations. I have been deliberately vague about details of my finances as I do not doubt the mathematics of the move - it is more about the change for me as a person.

Any comments or input would be welcome.

I voluntarily left a technical/professional job in 2011 at age 50, not certain what I was going to do next, but my heart was no longer in representing the company I worked for in front of customers. The mortgage was almost cleared and I had a supportive partner. I went for a few interviews in the same field, but found employers were very wary of someone who admitted to preferring to leave a company rather than persevere when no improvement was on the horizon. And some of those interview cycles were quite protracted.

Regrets - it took me a while to decide to move one and to decide what to do next, and in that time I burnt a significant lump of savings. Sounds like that is not too relevant to you, and in all honesty it looks like I don't need the money I spent, but it would have been nice to still have it.

Over a few months I decided that as I enjoyed driving I'd try making a living at that. In the last few years I've done school taxi driving, car delivery, chauffeuring and wedding car driving. Income about 20-40% of what it was, but now at age 55 I don't need to work financially, but have no desire to stop. I get far more positive feedback now than I did when I earned far more money.

Go for it, think about what you really want to do with your time, and get on with it. It sounds like you are in a position where if that allows you to make an income that is fine, but if it doesn't then it's not really an issue.

From my own experience I'd suggest it might be more difficult than you think to "go back to what you were doing" as a fallback, but I am sure that if whatever you try first doesn't work out there will be other options open to you.

It's also interesting to read the comments above about "working from home" and people wondering what your financial situation is (lottery winner?"). I frequently find myself saying to people that I'm not sure whether what I am doing is a little retirement job or the start of something bigger. You might need different answers for different people.

One final thought on your comment about the "change for me as a person":- For me it was important to have some external validation of my worth, so I did various ad-hoc tasks that earnt peanuts alongside the major tasks of a job search followed by preparing for my new career direction. I'm talking about things like mystery shopping, volunteering for academic research and so on. You will probably know whether you are happy passing time on your own, or prefer lots of human interaction for example, and there are books out there about choosing new careers which include lots of self analysis questions that you might find useful even though it is a new lifestyle you are choosing rather than a career.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Andy

[DiamondEcho]

...My friends are very sceptical about this proposed change - they do not seem to get why I am doing this, or how I can adjust to a new type of lifestyle. My family are supportive but I am starting to worry whether they too have their doubts.
I guess I am looking for examples of anyone else's experiences in similar situations. I have been deliberately vague about details of my finances as I do not doubt the mathematics of the move - it is more about the change for me as a person.

It's unnerving taking such a major leap into the dark, even when in your head and your calculations you consider that you'll be ok/+.
As you get older family+friends tend to be conservative, they see you're apparently happy now 'so why rock the boat?'. Perhaps some of their lives are in a similar position but they have chosen to stay put, and grind it out. So your decision and move perhaps challenges them and makes them feel uncertain with their own horizons?
I retired from my career in my 40s after being made redundant during some financial bust or other. Thousands of others were too, and most of us were rather hopelessly clamouring to get back into it, but there were few jobs. I'd already started branching out into buy-to-let and share investment before then and luckily was self-sufficient to cover a basic cost of living. Many of those close to me didn't understand, like I was abandoning the tribe.
In some ways you are abandoning the tribe, in that you're not living under it's rules and constraints. You might lose some friends along the way, certainly amongst colleagues, and there might be a period after the move where in the face of your family's doubts you feel you have to demonstrate you're making a success of it. Expect some people to ask in indignation 'But what do you actually do?', such is the need to pigeon-hole others it seems.

The other thing I found once I quit the career, and the circle that went with it, was I could live how I chose rather than how I was expected to by others. My cost of living dropped significantly as a result, without the work clothes, holidays at peak times of year, and $ocial-life that went with that career. But on the flipside you will have responsibility for creating a new framework for your day and life, it won't be simply mandated by the demands of your current work. You have to have a reason to get up 'on time' each day, your own routine, or it quickly becomes rather self-destructive and soul destroying IME/O.

[DiamondEcho]

I frequently find myself saying to people that I'm not sure whether what I am doing is a little retirement job or the start of something bigger. You might need different answers for different people.

This is so true, you might find yourself having to explain or even justify yourself to some people. In social settings in conversation with potential new friends, you might have to partially fabricate the day-to-day life AND job (real or not) you have so as not to be seen as too unorthodox such that they're unable to relate to you at all.
Your new status will threaten some people. Some people are going to be curious why and how you've moved away from the expected and orthodox and they'll want to sniff out how you've done it, and in terms of human behaviour, identify what your new social status is, so they know how to socially pitch vs you. [This x-refs to how relative status is usually unspoken but ever present, 'Games people play' [book], etc].

[funduffer]

I posted this on a FIRE post on this board some time ago, but you may find it interesting (slightly edited from previous):

I FIRE'd at 58, which is not that young, but I would still class as retiring early. I am now 61, and live off a DB pension and my investments (mainly dividend-paying shares and IT's, mainly in ISA's). However, I thought I would mention a few non-financial aspects of FIRE:

1. Get social. Unless you have a very active social life already, you will find you miss the day-to-day office banter with work colleagues. Go and find some clubs/organisations/voluntary groups to join for the social interaction. If they are during the working week, you will find you are amongst the youngest in these groups, so be prepared to interact socially with people 10 or 20 years older than yourself. I have joined a male voice choir, and have made many new friends of all ages from this.

2. Keep active. You should have more time, so use some of it to get fitter and healthier. I now walk to many places I used to drive to, and also cycle and swim. I have lost a fair amount of weight since retiring and feel much healthier than when I worked (which was basically a sedentary job in an office).

3. Be intellectually challenged. Keep your brain active, by taking part in something that stretches your mind. This might be further education, or some club with an intellectual challenge - eg discussion groups. I joined a local discussion forum, and volunteered for an NHS a medical ethics research committee, from which I have learned a lot and kept my brain active.

4. Feel worthwhile. Do something to maintain/gain self-esteem, which is all part of your overall personal well-being. Voluntary work is the obvious thing here - I volunteered for the local Air Ambulance charity as a speaker, which took me to all sorts of places, and made me feel I was still being useful to society.

5. See the world. If you can afford it, go and see the world, or the country, or your local region. Do it before you get too old. Start with long haul, as your horizons will reduce as you age. I have identified about 10 places I want to visit before I reach 70.

6. Last but not least - Stay solvent. The biggest thing approaching FIRE is to understand what you will spend, and therefore what income you will need. I under-estimated how much cheaper it is to live after FIRE, and have generally been too cautious in my spending. I hadn't quite realised how much tax, NI, pension contributions and work expenses were taking from my income when I worked. Also, after FIRE,you have more time to scrutinise what you spend, and I have found I have made very large savings in what I spend simply by finding bargains, changing bank accounts, switching energy suppliers and the like. I have been so successful, I am now struggling to spend up each month without generating new savings that I do not really need. The change in mindset from saving/investing as much as possible in achieving FIRE, to spending to enhance your quality of life has taken me some time to achieve.

Overall, enjoy FIRE - I do.

[pds2008]

Many thanks to everyone who has taken the trouble to read and respond to my post

I enjoyed reading the varied stories shared by andyalan10, Raptor, tieresia, Salvorhardin and nmdhqbc.

Also, the advice of TUK020, The barns, John B and Diamondecho is all gratefully received

Finally, I think I will print off Funduffer's list and pin it to my fridge - a terrific summary of what I need to do.

I received a sage reminder of life's challenges this week when I learned of a chap I know from the pub who has gone into sharp decline after a cancer diagnosis and is currently receiving palliative care in a hospice - my memories of him will always be of an active, friendly guy who always made time for others, loved the outdoors and his beloved fishing tackle. Ho had a few good years of retirement, but not enough.

We only get one shot at this game - I don't want to leave this place having not done enough - best wishes to you all

P

[Steveam]

I retired from a high pressure IT job when I was 52. I didn't really have any plans but I was already a magistrate and doing a small amount of work with a charity. I found the first year or two rather unstructured and although I enjoyed myself I was frittering the time away but then I started playing bridge again and then started doing some courses and fixed an exercise regime all of which gave the week some structure. In addition I've been exploring SE Asia by taking repeated one or two month holidays.

When I was 62 I had a life threatening health issue (a brain tumour - from which I've made a full recovery) and I remember lying in the hospital bed thinking that even if this goes badly at least I've had 10 years of "holiday".

I don't really have advice to offer as I think everyone is very different and our circumstances differ too much. I was and am very financially comfortable and don't have dependants. Now, in my late sixties, I try to keep in reasonable health both physically and mentally; I value experiences more than possessions; I'm willing to pay for comfort (business class travel); and above all else I enjoy family and friends.

Best wishes,

Steve

[Hypster]

Funduffer's post reminded me of the Japanese concept of ikigai (=a reason for being)

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/08/ ... long-life/

[mickeypops]

Now 63, working part-time and volunteering. Don't need to but enjoy the interaction. Intend to leave my SIPP and current pension untouched for as long as possible, but will take state pension at (currently) 67.

I would say go for it but beware something not going to plan (in my case the TAX man came calling).

Raptor.

Hi Raptor. I'm 62, so just behind you. I'll get the state pension at 66 and so should you I guess. So, "67" above is maybe a typo or maybe perhaps you're going to be pleasantly surprised?

MP

[Raptor]

Now 63, working part-time and volunteering. Don't need to but enjoy the interaction. Intend to leave my SIPP and current pension untouched for as long as possible, but will take state pension at (currently) 67.

I would say go for it but beware something not going to plan (in my case the TAX man came calling).

Raptor.

Hi Raptor. I'm 62, so just behind you. I'll get the state pension at 66 and so should you I guess. So, "67" above is maybe a typo or maybe perhaps you're going to be pleasantly surprised?

MP

Well, blow me down with a feather. Just re-checked HMRC and it says:-

You can get your State Pension on 6 May 2019.

I wonder if that is right as it would make me 65 and 4 months....... Made my day, if that is right....

Raptor.

[mickeypops]

I'm sure it is right Raptor. I was born in October 1954 and I'm just young enough to be one of the earliest who have to wait until they're 66 - and there's a glide path from 65 to 66 for the preceding year. Break out the champers!

There's a table here. Table 3 is the one that applies to you and me.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pens ... etire.html

[Raptor]

I'm sure it is right Raptor. I was born in October 1954 and I'm just young enough to be one of the earliest who have to wait until they're 66 - and there's a glide path from 65 to 66 for the preceding year. Break out the champers!

There's a table here. Table 3 is the one that applies to you and me.

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/pens ... etire.html

Wonder where I got 67 from. Must have been on the very early beta site Of HMRC.

Good news, for a change.

Raptor