FIRE hits The Guardian

[EthicsGradient]

I thought members might find this interesting - a Guardian article on a Canadian couple, who retired in their early 30s once their net worth was $1m Canadian: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... leung-fire

Whether they're getting significant income from the books they wrote post-retirement is unclear. It appears they never bought their own house - the ever increasing prices that made it difficult to start were part of what made them take a different view. And they have no children, as far as I can tell (none mentioned, and they are constantly traveling), which makes a big difference.

[Howard]

Thank you for the link.

Interesting article. It confirms my personal bias. I sometimes ask wealthy friends and neighbours why they keep working. Especially those with no children. Eventually their wealth almost becomes a burden.

Having retired early(ish) at just over 50, I haven't regretted it. There are so many interesting alternatives to working if one looks for them.

regards

Howard

[JohnB]

They decided to become FI, and have a good point that travelling can be cheaper than staying at home, but I'm not sure they are RE as they are busy writing and promoting their lifestyle

[tikunetih]

None of the self-promoting FIRE types you come across have actually RE'd, they've just changed careers instead into publishing, coaching, non-regulated investment advice, stating the b* obvious, etc.

Nothing wrong with switching careers; in these cases from (usually) high earning careers into more relaxed portfolio careers, invariably focused on selling the dream of RE to others, despite them not having actually done this themselves...

Pointing out the irony of this usually just generates the stock 'internet retirement police' response.

Me? Never done a single day's work in nearly two decades now. The real deal

[Watis]

None of the self-promoting FIRE types you come across have actually RE'd, they've just changed careers instead into publishing, coaching, non-regulated investment advice, stating the b* obvious, etc.

Nothing wrong with switching careers; in these cases from (usually) high earning careers into more relaxed portfolio careers, invariably focused on selling the dream of RE to others, despite them not having actually done this themselves...

Pointing out the irony of this usually just generates the stock 'internet retirement police' response.

Me? Never done a single day's work in nearly two decades now. The real deal

What about your online publishing career?

Even if it's only on the Lemon Fool!

Watis

[fca2019]

None of the self-promoting FIRE types you come across have actually RE'd

Yes I've noticed this is usually the case as well! Its a odd one, talking endlessly about something, without actually doing it.

Me? Never done a single day's work in nearly two decades now. The real deal

Good going, as long as you have found plenty of things to keep you occupied.

[gryffron]

None of the self-promoting FIRE types you come across have actually RE'd

But if they really had RE'd, how would you hear about it?

Gryff
(a mere 8 years)

[tikunetih]

You'd perhaps discover it in passing, organically, rather than as part of some marketing spiel aimed at selling you their product(s).

Or not discover it at all, of course (being your point).

[kempiejon]

Is this a bit like the old adage those that can do those that can't teach?
To mix my metaphors those bloggers that have monetised their discussion of getting out of the 9-5 have got out of the rat race and run to their own tune.
I can see FI not far down the track but I'm not sure I'll RE I might just be unemployed for a bit or indefinitely. I would be available for work just choosing not to take any. Retire seems final, a break from committed long term employment seems more realistic.

[tikunetih]

Good going, as long as you have found plenty of things to keep you occupied.

The anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the earlier you retire, the easier it is to be retired (ie. not miss working and find it easier to fill your time with anything but work) and the later you retire the opposite. Plenty of exceptions exist, often linked to personality types (eg. the especially gregarious seem to struggle more in earlier retirement), but there seems to be some pattern.

Presumably, this is due to earlier retirees' lesser exposure to the work environment conditioning them less into relying or depending upon an externally imposed "working-day" structure, making it easier for them to craft alternative templates of how to spend their time and their lives. Again, plenty of exceptions at the individual level.

[Lootman]

Me? Never done a single day's work in nearly two decades now. The real deal

Same here. It's just 18 years for me but the same applies. The only "work" I have done is running the pub quiz in my local for a few months, for thirty quid a night plus free beer.

I was a BTL landlord for a good part of that time, and I suppose that counts as work, although I always tried to minimise the effort involved.

I don't count running my portfolios as work.

The anecdotal evidence seems to suggest that the earlier you retire, the easier it is to be retired (ie. not miss working and find it easier to fill your time with anything but work) and the later you retire the opposite. Plenty of exceptions exist, often linked to personality types (eg. the especially gregarious seem to struggle more in earlier retirement), but there seems to be some pattern.

Presumably, this is due to earlier retirees' lesser exposure to the work environment conditioning them less into relying or depending upon an externally imposed "working-day" structure, making it easier for them to craft alternative templates of how to spend their time and their lives. Again, plenty of exceptions at the individual level.

It's an interesting theory about how much structure someone feels the need to have imposed upon them. I have had a good number of still-working people say to me "Whatever do you do all day?" They clearly cannot imagine how to fritter away the 16 hours a day you are awake unless you are mostly either going to work, at work, or coming home.

This question happens so often that I have a stock answer: "I just pass time pleasurably"(*). In reality I am never bored even if I am doing very little. My perfect day is one with zero obligations. My favourite time of the week? Monday morning. My least favourite? Friday evening. The exact opposite of a working person.


(*) I confess I stole that line from Peter Cook. When asked what the meaning of life was, he once opined that it is "to pass time pleasurably". He then went on to say that life might have more meaning than that but "I have been too busy passing time pleasurably to have noticed".

[JohnB]

I think its a matter of self-description. There are many people who would describe themselves as authors, artists or actors, but when you push you find they have a mundane job to pay the bills. They'd have no problem retiring, but their external commitments mean they aren't working hard enough to become financially independent.

Then there are those who've committed themselves to careers. They can get the financial independence, but define self-worth by career worth, and have built their social networks round their careers.

FIRE works best with those who can find easy jobs that pay well enough.

Me, as a misanthrope, the worst bit of jobs was working with other people, virtually no colleagues became friends, so it was a delight to stop work. I always had too many interests to focus on a career, so its great to be able to indulge them fully. If you ever asked me what I am, its always been a "science fan", not a "supercomputer expert".

[WorkShy]

I've watched the FIRE blogging community for over a decade since my aim is to retire early. Early on the bloggers seemed quite introverted types who were mainly blogging simply to work through their own thought processes and diarise the journey to FIRE.

The newer bloggers seem far more extrovert and many are clearly using the "FIRE bandwagon" simply to build a business in lifestyle coaching. They hardly talk about finance at all. Instead it's pop psychology and other forms of cargo cult science. What's very clear is that many of them have "retired" on very little and the "side-gig" of lifestyle coaching, fees from affiliate links etc is pretty important part of their income.

[Alaric]

What's very clear is that many of them have "retired" on very little and the "side-gig" of lifestyle coaching, fees from affiliate links etc is pretty important part of their income.

Another approach is to combine highly paid skills with a relatively cheap lifestyle. So work for 6 months of the year probably as a contractor and take 6 months off, travelling or pursuing non financially viable hobbies, sports etc .

[gbjbaanb]

None of the self-promoting FIRE types you come across have actually RE'd, they've just changed careers instead into publishing, coaching, non-regulated investment advice, stating the b* obvious, etc.

Nothing wrong with switching careers; in these cases from (usually) high earning careers into more relaxed portfolio careers, invariably focused on selling the dream of RE to others, despite them not having actually done this themselves...

Pointing out the irony of this usually just generates the stock 'internet retirement police' response.

Me? Never done a single day's work in nearly two decades now. The real deal

True, but one day you'll have to retire from your job in local government

Perhaps this new sense of "oh we stopped our career and now livew a life of "experiences" is exactly the dream that many young people have - they're no longer driven by posessions but "experiences". So this is just more pandering to that crowd, selling them the lifestyle they'd like to have. Compare to us others who dream of a lifestyle of sitting back drawing investment returns... we're not so different, just lazier.

[runnygum]

My Wife and I fulled FIRE'd a few years ago. Zero work, zero side income. Proper retired.
Im now a full time sports person. Travel the world and compete until I break down.

The trigger was a business sale. I suspect its going to depend largely on what pot you FIRE on. £1M is good for a natural yield of maybe £35k if you split it between partners and use SIPP and ISA's etc this can be almost 100% tax free. Which is a pre tax gross equiv of maybe £50k. Enough to do just about go anywhere you want whenever you want. (excess consumption excluded)

As stated FIRE'ing and working on books/blogs/side hustles etc is basically self employment.

[tikunetih]

My Wife and I fulled FIRE'd a few years ago. Zero work, zero side income. Proper retired.
Im now a full time sports person. Travel the world and compete until I break down.

Only just noticed this post. Excellent, runnygum - good "work"!

What's the sport, some form of running?

[runnygum]

Target shooting. Holes in paper in effect