Albanian incomers to UK (not serious post)

[Clariman]

I wonder if all the Albanian immigrants to the UK are coming here because they are unhappy about their homeland's desire to join the EU? Wouldn't that be an ironic consequence of brexit

[Posted here because in jest]

[UncleEbenezer]

I wonder if all the Albanian immigrants to the UK are coming here because they are unhappy about their homeland's desire to join the EU? Wouldn't that be an ironic consequence of brexit

[Posted here because in jest]

But could Albania gain admittance ahead of Scotland or NI? Under the present (mafia) leadership and dodgy institutions, it would take a lot of bending the rules!

[pje16]

I know an Albanian whose life story over there would make you cry
he came here 20 years ago, didn't speak a word of English
He was getting UK Gov handouts, once he found out what they were, he refused them
Now has his own house, another he lets out, and his own thriving business
I have nothing but admiration for him

[Beerpig]

Hi PJE 16,

I also have nothing but admiration for him but I suspect he may be an exception and most of these poor migrants will have no choice but to draw on the state benefits system. You really do feel for the huge number of people whose life is so desperate they are prepared to take the most appalling risks just to try and get the Uk. Who among us faced with the same challenges would do any different?

The problem is the Uk asylum admission system is not fit for purpose and cannot cope with the numbers now flooding in. It seems to me the situation is only going to get worse because the more illegal migrants that make it across the channel, the more will come. The figure is already 40,000 for this year alone, the vast majority single males with more queuing up on the French coast waiting for a break in the weather.
I don't know what the solution is any more than the government but if the illegal/uninvited intrusion of 40,000 people a year into the Uk is not an invasion, I don't know what is.

[swill453]

I don't know what the solution is any more than the government but if the illegal/uninvited intrusion of 40,000 people a year into the Uk is not an invasion, I don't know what is.

Russia into Ukraine. It's not hard.

Us taking a tiny fraction of asylum seekers that other European countries do, isn't it.

(Yeah I know, wrong board...)

Scott.

[stockton]

How come Albanians require more than 5 minutes consideration ? Or does the Home Office not know where Albania is ?

[swill453]

Only a small percentage of those coming across in the boats are Albanians.

Scott.

[richfool]

Only a small percentage of those coming across in the boats are Albanians.

Scott.

According to the BBC news a couple of nights ago, the majority of those arriving in boats recently were Albanians.

Upon a quick check, I can find these sources:

https://fullfact.org/immigration/home-o ... 0-percent/

https://news.sky.com/story/exponential- ... d-12730745

And Albania is a safe country.

[roger4]

Beerpig is correct, the UK Asylum system is not fit for purpose. It treats ALL migrants as potential political refugees rather than taking the view that political refugees would take refuge in the first "safe" country they come to. So the only "political refugees" arriving should be by air. All the rest are economic migrants. If the operation of the international convention for treatment of refugees was suspended for a period, and ALL migrants treated as economic migrants unless the migrants can prove their fear of persecution, the problem would go away.

Yes it is an extreme view, but UK has become a "soft touch" for immigration thanks to successive governments not having the "spine" to deal with it.

I'll get back in the stocks so I can be properly pilloried.

Roger

[Arborbridge]

Beerpig is correct, the UK Asylum system is not fit for purpose. It treats ALL migrants as potential political refugees rather than taking the view that political refugees would take refuge in the first "safe" country they come to. So the only "political refugees" arriving should be by air. All the rest are economic migrants. If the operation of the international convention for treatment of refugees was suspended for a period, and ALL migrants treated as economic migrants unless the migrants can prove their fear of persecution, the problem would go away.

Yes it is an extreme view, but UK has become a "soft touch" for immigration thanks to successive governments not having the "spine" to deal with it.

I'll get back in the stocks so I can be properly pilloried.

Roger

I seem to remember the "first safe country" discussion here previously and remember that it isn't so simple - indeed it is ambiguous. Therefore I would say your conclusion is not sound.

However, it's patently obvious that Albania is not a country which is war torn so I'm inclined to think these are probably economic migrants. Maybe we should take any with skills we need and send the rest back, but someone we need to speed up the process which is taking years in some cases. Unbelieveable!
I never thought I would say this, but perhaps we should withdraw from all the various human rights conventions we are part of, and join the pariah nations.

While thinking about this, I do have sympathy for Braverman (or anyone in that job). Everyone pointing the finger at her saying she must tell us all what she is going to do about it, when everyone must realise it is an intractable problem. There is no easy solution, indeed, perhaps no solution without changing the laws and conventions.

Arb.

[Bminusrob]

Where I live in North Devon, the local councils are getting a bit grumpy because some hotels have been taken over to accommodate these "incomers". The incomers are also grumpy because there aren't the bright lights in North Devon that they are used to in or near London.

I worry that many of those who know they have entered the country illegally will just "disappear". Once they are in these remote hotels, they can more or less go where they want to.

My slightly radical solution would be to put lots of temporary accommodation on Lundy Island and ship them all over there until they are processed. They won't be doing a runner from Lundy.

Now, I wonder if my cousin Ghengis Khan would agree with me.

[redsturgeon]

Where I live in North Devon, the local councils are getting a bit grumpy because some hotels have been taken over to accommodate these "incomers". The incomers are also grumpy because there aren't the bright lights in North Devon that they are used to in or near London.

I worry that many of those who know they have entered the country illegally will just "disappear". Once they are in these remote hotels, they can more or less go where they want to.

My slightly radical solution would be to put lots of temporary accommodation on Lundy Island and ship them all over there until they are processed. They won't be doing a runner from Lundy.

Now, I wonder if my cousin Ghengis Khan would agree with me.

What about the puffins!

[88V8]

My slightly radical solution would be to put lots of temporary accommodation on Lundy Island and ship them all over there until they are processed. They won't be doing a runner from Lundy.

What about the puffins!

I think the Albanians would eat them.

V8

[Clitheroekid]

I completely agree that if I was an ambitious Albanian, I would probably do my best to get to the UK. For those who have access to The Times, this is an excellent article, explaining why so many young Albanian men are keen to get to the UK - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/alba ... -ddq88w3tc

But one of the less obvious downsides to this immigration is that the countries from which the immigrants originate are losing many of their best chances of a better future. The young men who leave Albania for other European countries are, almost by definition, some of the most ambitious and enterprising men in the country. The net effect is that Albania is suffering terribly, and is in something of a downward spiral. It's now one of the biggest cannabis producers in the world, to the extent that cannabis is now believed to be its biggest export by value.

Although the UK (and presumably also other European governments) are providing financial aid to encourage young Albanians to stay there it's a largely futile gesture. Wages are five times as high here, and apparently the cost of everyday items is much the same in both countries (though no doubt housing is far more expensive here, hence the growth in HMO's).

Because there are so many Albanians already living here, and (unlike other European countries) there is no requirement for formal identity documents, it’s easy for the immigrants to be assimilated into the existing community, and there's plenty of cash in hand work available in car washes etc. Sadly, there are also plenty of lucrative opportunities in crime.

I remember visiting Albania a few years ago. We stopped off at a small bar in the middle of nowhere for a drink. The guy serving behind the bar had worked in Australia for a while, so spoke some English. He said we were the first English visitors they had ever had, and that I must meet one of his friends, who was an enthusiastic Anglophile (though he didn't use that exact terminology).

We sat down with a drink, and a few minutes later a wizened little man came running over, declaiming excitedly how much he loved English people and insisting on topping up our glasses.

It would have been rude to refuse, so as we drank our beer he told us that he had entered the UK illegally in the back of a lorry some years ago, and had ended up in Bradford where he was working cash in hand on various building sites.

He said that he had been earning around £40,000 a year, which was an immense amount by Albanian standards. He had sent his money home, and used it to build a nine bedroom house in the village - by far the biggest house in the area, he informed us proudly - and to extend his network of wives.

He told us that eventually HMRC had caught up with him, and that he had been prosecuted for tax evasion. However, having been convicted, he was given a suspended sentence and ordered to be deported back to Albania.

"And best of all," he said, "UK Government paid my air fare home!"

Needless to say, after hearing his tale, I felt rather less guilty about accepting the free beer!

[anon155742]

When it comes to political decisions there are probably now more Albanians that came across by dinghy in past 12 months than there are posters on this Lemon Fool website so they now have more political clout than we do.

Part of mass migration is a reduction in the relative power of your vote and ability to alter the course of the nation in the way you think is best

[Arborbridge]

Maybe some of you saw Question Time last week, where the question of migrants came up. Sir Stuart Rose was on the panel, and I couldn't help admiring his take on life in general compared with the posturing politicians.

However, I remember his judgement about our migration policy - barking mad! Here we are with a shortage of labour in employment of all skills and we try to keep these people out, or worse, let them languish in expensive hotels or in wretched conditions in camps. At least process them quickly and get them to work via temporary visa schemes while their claims are tested.
I heard later, There is a young person's scheme for people up to 30 (?) which could be extended to cover other countries than the ones it currently does (Australia and NZ??).

Of course, Rose was talking from the POV of an employer trying to ease the problems for industry, but it's nice to hear someone with practical common sense views rather than conservatives ideologues spouting theory which might or might not work in the long run. That other very practical man, John Keynes pointed out: in the long run we are all dead.

As for diluting my vote: pilfle. If people are entitled to vote, then they are welcome.


Arb.

[Arborbridge]

When it comes to political decisions there are probably now more Albanians that came across by dinghy in past 12 months than there are posters on this Lemon Fool website so they now have more political clout than we do.

Part of mass migration is a reduction in the relative power of your vote and ability to alter the course of the nation in the way you think is best

This is completely irrelevant nonsense, and quite offensive to people who have come to settle here down the years. And those Albanians you mention that outnumber Lemon Fool posters (why pick on them, almost every particular hobby group outnumber us!) won't have a vote at all until they qualify for one, and then they will have earnt it.

Come to think of it, most of the children born after me have also diluted my vote, so do I want to disenfranchise them? No, it's their country too, and if you settle in a place and earn a vote, it is properly your right to influence what happens in that country.

Arb.

[marronier]

How many migrants does it take before they become colonial settlers?

[UncleEbenezer]

How many migrants does it take before they become colonial settlers?

As an annex of Northern France, we've been Great Brittany.

If Albanians settle us, do we become Alba or Albion?

[didds]

It seems to me the situation is only going to get worse because the more illegal migrants that make it across the channel.

This is not a dig at BP...

Can somebody from a legal perspective, not some DM knee jerk understanding, confirm or deny what exactly an "illegal immigrant" is.

I often see all these arrivals blanket described as "illegal".

I also see multiple claims that they are not illegal, as everybody under international law has the right to claim asylum - and that doesn't make them illegal at that point of arrival/claim of asylum.

Im not interested in rants about "them lot coming over here" etc please - that doesn't further my understanding. I also understand that under the Dublin protocol thye UK had the "right to return" arrivals from whence they came - but that was lost when Brexit occurred, so doesn't apply now.

cheers

didds