He didn't have planning permission, but I feel sorry for him.

[stevensfo]

A man who has lived in a home made from shipping containers for 30 years has been given six months to leave because he did not have planning permission.

Stephen Gibbons, 65, brought up his four children in the property he built at his three-acre Lighthouse Farm at St Brides, Gwent, on the Welsh coast.....But he now has to vacate the premises after Newport council’s planning committee argued he had changed the use of his land to a mix-used facility without getting permission.

Now, okay, he didn't have permission, but from the photos, it's clear that his dwelling was not a nuisance to anyone at all. You'd think that the council could use a little discretion in this matter!

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/shipping-cont ... 29251.html


Steve

[BullDog]

I would have thought that after that length of time the planners couldn't order something like that?

I mean, why don't the very same planners order that Cardiff Castle has to be demolished? That hasn't got planning permission either

[stevensfo]

I would have thought that after that length of time the planners couldn't order something like that?

I mean, why don't the very same planners order that Cardiff Castle has to be demolished? That hasn't got planning permission either

Well, I do believe that Nicola Sturgeon has ordered Rome Civic council to demolish both Hadrian's and Anthony's wall and pay fines backdated 2000 years.

As for Stonehenge? Strewth! No proof of planning permission whatsoever. Valuable space that could be used for a shopping centre, multi-storey car park and cinema complex!

Steve

[Watis]

I would have thought that after that length of time the planners couldn't order something like that?

I mean, why don't the very same planners order that Cardiff Castle has to be demolished? That hasn't got planning permission either

Well, I do believe that Nicola Sturgeon has ordered Rome Civic council to demolish both Hadrian's and Anthony's wall and pay fines backdated 2000 years.

As for Stonehenge? Strewth! No proof of planning permission whatsoever. Valuable space that could be used for a shopping centre, multi-storey car park and cinema complex!

Steve

Traffic on the approach to Stonehenge is bad enough as it is. Surely a shopping centre, etc. will only make things worse!

Watis

[Laughton]

Breach of planning – the 4 and 10 year rules

Operational development – in the case of building, engineering, mining or other operations, enforcement action must be commenced within four years of substantial completion of the development.

Material change of use of a building – in the case of the change of use of a building to a use as a single dwelling house, enforcement action must be taken within four years beginning with the date of the breach of planning control.

Any other breach of planning control, enforcement action must be taken within 10 years beginning with the date of the breach. This 10-year period applies to material changes of use and a breach of condition imposed on a planning permission.

Source: https://www.cla.org.uk/news/breach-of-p ... explained/

[kempiejon]

There was a fella round where my mate lived who built a house inside a barn surrounded by hay bales and then revealed it thinking he'd dodged the rules but had to pull it down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-36445848
and the timeline
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-34585555

[stevensfo]

There was a fella round where my mate lived who built a house inside a barn surrounded by hay bales and then revealed it thinking he'd dodged the rules but had to pull it down. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-36445848
and the timeline
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-34585555

From what I understand, the court said here that the time-limit rules didn't apply, since the construction had been deliberately hidden by hay bales.

In the case of the guy in the shipping containers, the council also stated

this structure was erected without permission and deliberately concealed in order to bypass planning regulations.

But whereas the castle 'was' concealed, I'm not sure you can say this about the shipping containers. How was it 'concealed'?

Steve

[bungeejumper]

In the case of the guy in the shipping containers, the council also stated

this structure was erected without permission and deliberately concealed in order to bypass planning regulations.

But whereas the castle 'was' concealed, I'm not sure you can say this about the shipping containers. How was it 'concealed'?

I think the answer might become clear if you look at the Google Map through Street View. The farm's a maze of large industrial sheds, and the offending structures are accessed through a rabbit warren of tracks, well away from sight. That and the fact that the owner appears to have permanently blocked the direct access from the road with a damn great steel gate that doesn't afford much of a view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Newpo ... -3.0094196

That said, there are worse ramshackle structures on many farms, There's one such in our neck of the woods, where the last owner kept a couple of priceless vintage Bentleys tucked out of sight of the bad lads.

In this case, the owner of the shack doesn't appear to have been doing anybody any harm, but councils have their ways of looking at these things. When you build a dwelling, somebody has to work out how the load on the schools and health facilities and road maintenance and all that stuff is going to be affected.

And somebody else has to levy the council tax, which after being unpaid for 30 years is probably getting to be quite a tidy sum.

BJ

[stevensfo]

In the case of the guy in the shipping containers, the council also stated

I think the answer might become clear if you look at the Google Map through Street View. The farm's a maze of large industrial sheds, and the offending structures are accessed through a rabbit warren of tracks, well away from sight. That and the fact that the owner appears to have permanently blocked the direct access from the road with a damn great steel gate that doesn't afford much of a view:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/Newpo ... -3.0094196

That said, there are worse ramshackle structures on many farms, There's one such in our neck of the woods, where the last owner kept a couple of priceless vintage Bentleys tucked out of sight of the bad lads.

In this case, the owner of the shack doesn't appear to have been doing anybody any harm, but councils have their ways of looking at these things. When you build a dwelling, somebody has to work out how the load on the schools and health facilities and road maintenance and all that stuff is going to be affected.

And somebody else has to levy the council tax, which after being unpaid for 30 years is probably getting to be quite a tidy sum.

BJ

Yes, good points. I can only assume that for 30 years, his official address was that of the farm. No doubt he was paying council tax for that. He had 4 kids, so they must have been registered somewhere. Then there's safety of electric/gas installations etc.

I do hope that they give him the option of getting the place registered in some way so he can continue living there. The inside looks quite cosy and it must be heart-breaking to have to leave. They're only shipping containers.

Steve

[swill453]

Well, I do believe that Nicola Sturgeon has ordered Rome Civic council to demolish both Hadrian's and Anthony's wall and pay fines backdated 2000 years.

Boring pedantry I know, but Hadrian's wall is between 10 and 80 km south of the border, none of it is in Scotland. And the other one is Antonine's wall

Scott.

[Rhyd6]

Council planning departments sem to make the rules up as they go. There is a pub in a village about 5 miles away from us which has closed, owner applied for change of use to dwelling, application refused on grounds that the building might flood. It's been there over a hundred years and never flooded, it's about 14ft higher than the river, same council gave permission for a new build cafe/bakery to be built on piece of land adjoining the pub car park which is about 10ft lower than the pub meaning that the new build is about 4ft higher than the river. The general consensus of opinion is that a number of brown envelopes changed hands, either that or the planning department are totally incompetent.
Referring to the chap and his container dwelling, what would happen if he put the container on the back of a flatbed lorry? He could always claim to be a member of the travelling community as in North Wales they seem to get away with everything bar murder.

R6

[AF62]

Council planning departments sem to make the rules up as they go. There is a pub in a village about 5 miles away from us which has closed, owner applied for change of use to dwelling, application refused on grounds that the building might flood. It's been there over a hundred years and never flooded, it's about 14ft higher than the river, same council gave permission for a new build cafe/bakery to be built on piece of land adjoining the pub car park which is about 10ft lower than the pub meaning that the new build is about 4ft higher than the river. The general consensus of opinion is that a number of brown envelopes changed hands, either that or the planning department are totally incompetent.

Having observed a number of planning committee meetings my view is that the council officers are trained professionals who completely know what they are doing.

However they need to have the patience of a saint dealing with the stupid / unpredictable / irrational elected councillors on the planning committee who actually make the decisions.

And then the planning officers have the embarrassment of having to send out the decision with their name on it.

At one meeting one councillor stood up and chastised the other members of the committee who were referring to a distance in yards (you can guess the age of the committee members) when the planning application referred to it in metres.

Up they stood and pronounced loudly that it was important to be consistent as 500 metres was twice the distance as 500 yards.

As for the other decisions made - the committee was split 50/50 between two parties with one independent. All the party members just made decisions on party grounds with only the independent asking any sensible questions.

And at the end of the day you could see the planning officers virtually shaking their heads as some applications were granted that never should have been, whilst others were refused on no planning grounds at all which the planning officers knew would be overturned on appeal.

[Rhyd6]

Hi AF62, I quite agree about the calibre of local councillors, we are saddled with one who tried to make it mandatory for all business to be conducted in Welsh. There were three people present who could speak Welsh the remainder of the people at the meeting, about 60 bodies, couldn't. He was somewhat miffed when his suggestion was kicked into touch. Unfortunately Flintshire at the moment is going through some serious problems in the planning department. Several planners, including the top guy have had their employment terminated, with loss of pension etc. for, shall we shall somewhat shady dealings. There have been a lot of personnel changes and the new boys are following all rules in the strictest of manner which means that lots of decisions are being appealed in the Sennedd. I was talking to one of the bods sent out to deal with an appeal and she told me she had worn a groove driving between Flintshire and Cardiff she'd been up and down that often.

R6

[stewamax]

I quite agree about the calibre of local councillors, we are saddled with one who tried to make it mandatory for all business to be conducted in Welsh. There were three people present who could speak Welsh the remainder of the people at the meeting, about 60 bodies, couldn't. He was somewhat miffed when his suggestion was kicked into touch.

When I was a lad (in Flintshire, long before it became Denbighshire...) there was a possibly apocryphal story about another County Councillor who made exactly the same proposal - which was then (cunningly) accepted. His delight only lasted a few minutes when he was forced to use an English word for which there was apparently no accepted equivalent in Welsh.

[Rhyd6]

Nice one Stewamax. Flintshire boasts very few Welsh speakers nowadays though I must say that a lot of incomers are very anxious to learn Welsh. We have a lot of fun teaching them the basics at our weekly community coffee morning. It took me nearly twelve months to get OH to pronounce Ruthin correctly, he would insist in pronouncing it as a girls name.

R6

[chas49]

Well, I do believe that Nicola Sturgeon has ordered Rome Civic council to demolish both Hadrian's and Anthony's wall and pay fines backdated 2000 years.

Boring pedantry I know, but Hadrian's wall is between 10 and 80 km south of the border, none of it is in Scotland. And the other one is Antonine's wall

Scott.

Probably should take this somewhere else but isn't it The Antonine Wall?

[kempiejon]

Probably should take this somewhere else but isn't it The Antonine Wall?

Here perhaps https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 02#p527135?