Energy costs. Oh dear.......

[richlist]

Yes, why not ?
The smart meter for the gas supply is a separate device from the smart meter for the electric supply.I
We have gas central heating.

I dont know. I always thought E7 was for folk who were all electric/storage heaters. Obviously I was wrong.

I think you are right. E7 is mainly for people who are all electric or who have electric heating. We are probably unusual in that we use electric during the E7 period which i think is around midnight to 8am. I have no idea if it would be cheaper to ditch the E7 but my electric bill is not enormous.

[BullDog]

Well it is indeed as expected a case of "Energy costs, oh dear". Yesterday I used £12 of gas at Chateau BullDog. That's the most I've ever spent on a day's heating. I guess it could be higher today as at the moment the outdoor temperature is -10 Celsius.

Got to feel for anyone trying to live off universal credit or on a minimum wage job trying to support a family.

[pje16]

Got to feel for anyone trying to live off universal credit or on a minimum wage job trying to support a family.

Me too, I don't feel the cold very much, but I pity those who do
I heard last night that some mums are feeding the kids and the dog but not themselves
We still have January to come .....

[BullDog]

Got to feel for anyone trying to live off universal credit or on a minimum wage job trying to support a family.

Me too, I don't feel the cold very much, but I pity those who do
I heard last night that some mums are feeding the kids and the dog but not themselves
We still have January to come .....

You wouldn't believe it would you? Living in 2022 in the UK, what I understand is still the world's 6th largest economy? There's so much that's broken, it's difficult to know where to start fixing it all.

[Tedx]

Me too, I don't feel the cold very much, but I pity those who do
I heard last night that some mums are feeding the kids and the dog but not themselves
We still have January to come .....

You wouldn't believe it would you? Living in 2022 in the UK, what I understand is still the world's 6th largest economy? There's so much that's broken, it's difficult to know where to start fixing it all.

I believe India is the 5th largest and doesn't have basic sanitation for millions.

[scotview]

Well it is indeed as expected a case of "Energy costs, oh dear". Yesterday I used £12 of gas at Chateau BullDog. That's the most I've ever spent on a day's heating. I guess it could be higher today as at the moment the outdoor temperature is -10 Celsius.

Got to feel for anyone trying to live off universal credit or on a minimum wage job trying to support a family.

Would this even be a talking point if we hadn't demolished the coal fired power station fleet and actively discouraged our own domestic HC industry.

Whilst implementing an obscure, manipulated energy market and draconian green agenda. I, and probably most on this board, can pay our energy bills without concern but it is a disgrace that some folk, particularly the old, are facing this degree of worry and discomfort.

[BullDog]

Well it is indeed as expected a case of "Energy costs, oh dear". Yesterday I used £12 of gas at Chateau BullDog. That's the most I've ever spent on a day's heating. I guess it could be higher today as at the moment the outdoor temperature is -10 Celsius.

Got to feel for anyone trying to live off universal credit or on a minimum wage job trying to support a family.

Would this even be a talking point if we hadn't demolished the coal fired power station fleet and actively discouraged our own domestic HC industry.

Whilst implementing an obscure, manipulated energy market and draconian green agenda. I, and probably most on this board, can pay our energy bills without concern but it is a disgrace that some folk, particularly the old, are facing this degree of worry and discomfort.

Agreed on all points.

[Watis]

I'm seriously concerned that after this cold spell, people will be found dead in their homes, having died from hypothermia.

I know this happens every year, but this year, we will be able to identify those who death resulted from the cost of living crisis, and specifically, high energy prices.

They will be those who bodies are found in their home with the heating turned off.

Watis

[doolally]

Would this even be a talking point if we hadn't demolished the coal fired power station fleet and actively discouraged our own domestic HC industry.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Perhaps we should also have kept our steam trains in case we don't have enough electricity for the electric trains.
doolally

[scotview]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Perhaps we should also have kept our steam trains in case we don't have enough electricity for the electric trains.
doolally

Oh, yes and we shouldn't have blocked big nuclear either.

And, it certainly isn't hindsight thinking on my part. I am not against innovation, I just think the green agenda has been brought in much too quickly and not thought through.

[servodude]

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Perhaps we should also have kept our steam trains in case we don't have enough electricity for the electric trains.
doolally

Oh, yes and we shouldn't have blocked big nuclear either.

And, it certainly isn't hindsight thinking on my part. I am not against innovation, I just think the green agenda has been brought in much too quickly and not thought through.

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

[UncleEbenezer]

Oh, yes and we shouldn't have blocked big nuclear either.

And, it certainly isn't hindsight thinking on my part. I am not against innovation, I just think the green agenda has been brought in much too quickly and not thought through.

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

Or they've been done wrong. Here's from 2007 ....

The government has announced a serious programme of building offshore wind farms to supply a significant proportion of our energy needs. For the first time in a political generation, this is not obviously-empty bullshit, but looks like a real announcement. So let me join with everyone else in welcoming it.

However, I must express some reservations about the plan. Apart from practical problems like engineering and maintenance (which I’m sure can be solved – eventually), there are a couple of serious problems.

The lesser of these is the inevitable law of unintended consequences. Some idiot has already described the plan as powering all the UK’s households energy by wind. So householders, anxious to massage their consciences, will tell themselves “my energy use is now sustainable”, and cease to think about constraining it. But that only really affects those few households that are doing anything more than empty tokenism in the first place.

The more serious problem is that it has no economic basis. For the time being, and perhaps throughout the construction, the immediate cost of providing this wind power exceeds that of burning hydrocarbons. So the work will be driven by government rules and incentives. History has demonstrated clearly that free markets are altogether better than command economies for efficiency and innovation. Yet here is the government, commanding let it be so.

The government understands about markets They will create a competitive market, as they have done in other areas of public expenditure, from construction projects, to weapons procurement, to schools and hospitals. So where’s the problem?

The problem is that it’s a narrow micro-market. Sure, it’ll drive efficiency and innovation in the business of building and operating offshore wind turbines. But it will do nothing for out-of-the-box “big picture” ideas: in fact, it will actively lock them out, if they don’t happen to fit neatly in the defined micro-market. That’s the same underlying straitjacket that afflicts the command-and-control economy.

I refer the reader to my sketch Alice in Business for a story of how a marketplace in a narrow sector stimulates incremental optimisations at the expense of a radical order-of-magnitude improvement.

It’s not possible at any price to clean up fossil fuels to the standards we rightly impose on the nuclear industry (one could say, the true cost would be infinite if we did). The proper way to bring in large-scale development of renewable energy is to make fossil fuels pay a more realistic cost for the damage they do.

Governments can do that through taxation: indeed, I have argued for a major reduction in taxes on individuals and companies, with the shortfall being made up by taxing destruction and use of non-replaceable resources. Adjust taxation every year, and make it clear to everyone that this will continue for as long as we are burning any fossil fuels, and suddenly the free market will drive huge investment in renewable energy, including offshore wind.

That’s the real market, where Big Ideas can compete on their merits, and not be squeezed out by narrow constraints.

A political generation ago, John Major’s government did that, albeit just in one market sector. But instead of broadening it to encompass power generation, the present government killed off his good work. While the wind power programme is welcome, it’s no substitute for stimulating the market.

[richlist]

I used just over £6 of gas yesterday.....that's the most so far this winter. It's only on morning and evening for a few hours.

Also found a problem with solar panels I've not encountered before. The sun was out today so I thought I might run the dishwasher for free. The problem is they've been covered in snow for the last 3 days so they aren't generating any energy.

[xeny]

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

I've yet to see a convincing green solution to several consecutive days with little wind or sun.

[servodude]

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

I've yet to see a convincing green solution to several consecutive days with little wind or sun.

I've met plenty of folk like that; there's certainly an education issue

[Lootman]

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

I've yet to see a convincing green solution to several consecutive days with little wind or sun.

The ultimate "green" solution is nuclear. But of course the same loser lefties who hate oil also hate nuclear.

[staffordian]

The ultimate "green" solution is nuclear

Surely, its fusion.

The amount of hot air spoken about it will be enough to generate all the electricity we'll ever need, even if fusion doesn't actually work

[elkay]

Or the green solutions haven't been brought online quickly enough?

I've yet to see a convincing green solution to several consecutive days with little wind or sun.

I always expected tidal to overtake wind and solar, because of its reliability....

[xeny]

The ultimate "green" solution is nuclear. But of course the same loser lefties who hate oil also hate nuclear.

I'm definitely not left wing, dislike hydrocarbon use for electricity production and am of the opinion we should build enough nuclear capacity to target double peak current demand. You may need to review your Venn diagram.

[James]

Would this even be a talking point if we hadn't demolished the coal fired power station fleet and actively discouraged our own domestic HC industry.

Isn't hindsight a wonderful thing? Perhaps we should also have kept our steam trains in case we don't have enough electricity for the electric trains.
doolally

You 'as steam trains? sheer luxury. When I were a lad we had to beat the horse to life...