The Lemon Fool

mc2fool wrote:I don't believe pochisoldi in saying "as your own reference" meant the normal reference field but was rather asking if you can associate a "nickname" or "friendly name" with the payee, so you can have, e.g. "The Milkman" be Lemongrove Farm Dairy, 01-02-03, 123456789, ref.

The only "reference" asked for was the one that gets sent with the payment.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:Two questions:
1) Who does your Dad bank with?
2) Have you been forced to use the payee name as your own reference?

For (2) I'm thinking about the scenario I described earlier in this thread at https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 30#p272652

1) RBS
2) No, we were able to enter anything as the reference.

Scott.

The impression I had of RBS (well Natwest actually) was that if there was "no name match" they wouldn't actually let you set up the payment at all.
I'm not surprised about the missing "nickname" feature (thanks mc2fool for providing the word I had a mental block on), as the Natwest website (which is probably a re-skin of the RBS site), is probably the worst online banking website of the lot bar TSB.

(I have a Natwest current account, retained as a "legacy" so that I can honestly say I've had a 30+ relationship.)

PochiSoldi

pochisoldi wrote:I had a mental block on), as the Natwest website (which is probably a re-skin of the RBS site), is probably the worst online banking website of the lot bar TSB.

Yes it did seem pretty bad.

Right from the login process where it asked for random characters from password and PIN, in a random order.

For example, letter 5, 1, 3.

This adds zero extra security but makes it harder for their own customers, especially those like my 87 year old dad. My mum told me he'd been very distressed that he couldn't work out how to set up a standing order himself.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:I had a mental block on), as the Natwest website (which is probably a re-skin of the RBS site), is probably the worst online banking website of the lot bar TSB.

Yes it did seem pretty bad.

Scott.

Mmm, I think FirstDirect is right up there these days. Dreadful.

GS

G37y wrote:There seems alot of negative comments on this matter, I think it's a good thing if it reduces fraud.

I can't see how it reduces fraud. But I can certainly see it should greatly reduce accidents (wrong number typed etc).

Gryff

gryffron wrote:

G37y wrote:There seems alot of negative comments on this matter, I think it's a good thing if it reduces fraud.

I can't see how it reduces fraud.

I can. If the name is ignored then the miscreant can make you think you're paying to someone you want to, when you're not.

Scott.

gryffron wrote:

G37y wrote:There seems alot of negative comments on this matter, I think it's a good thing if it reduces fraud.

I can't see how it reduces fraud. But I can certainly see it should greatly reduce accidents (wrong number typed etc).

Gryff

It adds another check.

The "old" process forced you to assume that the details you had were correct, and you had to take it as a given that the account was owned by the intended recipient.

However the implementation is or is likely to be p***poor.

I want to be protected against making typos in bank details.
I do not want every single standing order/bill payment from one of my accounts to another of my accounts to have the label "pochisoldi" because sooner or later I will end up sending money to the wrong account, and I will suffer some form of loss as a result.
The "loss" being any one from:
Money locked in a limited or difficult to access account
Money sent to a limited deposit account that I can't add to (e.g. £250 sent in error to a monthly savings account that can accept £400)
Money sent to an illiquid account (e.g. £500 paid off a mortgage, never to be seen again)
Money sent to a partner's ISA/credit card/other provider rather than your own.

None of these involve a capital loss, but could cause collateral cashflow issues.

The only answer to this is to create a nickname field, which is, by default, populated by the payee's name, which can be edited after the name check has been carried out.
So when you set up a payment to "Thingy Dairies Ltd" the field gets populated with "Thingy Dairies Ltd", and you leave it alone and click apply.
When you set up a payment to your significant other's ISA account, the field gets populated with (say) "ANother ISA Ltd" and you edit it to "Cash ISA - Sue" so that it doesn't get confused with "Cash ISA - Bob" .

I'm not holding my breath...

pochisoldi wrote:The only answer to this is to create a nickname field, which is, by default, populated by the payee's name, which can be edited after the name check has been carried out.
So when you set up a payment to "Thingy Dairies Ltd" the field gets populated with "Thingy Dairies Ltd", and you leave it alone and click apply.
When you set up a payment to your significant other's ISA account, the field gets populated with (say) "ANother ISA Ltd" and you edit it to "Cash ISA - Sue" so that it doesn't get confused with "Cash ISA - Bob" .
I'm not holding my breath...

Surely you can use the "reference" field for that? As already mentioned. e.g. "poch to Bobs ISA". With all my accounts you can put anything you like in reference, and it gets remembered between payments. Although you're not allowed many characters.

Gryff

gryffron wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:The only answer to this is to create a nickname field, which is, by default, populated by the payee's name, which can be edited after the name check has been carried out.
So when you set up a payment to "Thingy Dairies Ltd" the field gets populated with "Thingy Dairies Ltd", and you leave it alone and click apply.
When you set up a payment to your significant other's ISA account, the field gets populated with (say) "ANother ISA Ltd" and you edit it to "Cash ISA - Sue" so that it doesn't get confused with "Cash ISA - Bob" .
I'm not holding my breath...

Surely you can use the "reference" field for that? As already mentioned. e.g. "poch to Bobs ISA". With all my accounts you can put anything you like in reference, and it gets remembered between payments. Although you're not allowed many characters.

Gryff

That won't work where you are sending to an organisation with a single collection account (i.e. non-unique sortcode+account number).
The reference field is also limited in size, and in my case I tend to use it to indicate where the money has come from, to make reconciliation with MS Money easier.

To a certain extent I want something similar to what I had in the late 1980s when I had a Halifax Cardcash account, and when I wanted to set up a transfer I could specify what appeared on the cash machine screen. This had to be done on a form that you handed in at the branch.
If they hadn't provided that field on the form I would probably have been presented with a list of destination account numbers and sort codes.

GoSeigen wrote:
Mmm, I think FirstDirect is right up there these days. Dreadful.

GS

Interesting... i find it quite straightforward, What was less clear was that when my phone died and it was replaxced the banking app would not work (set up via samsung smart switch for the old one in its alst few hours oflife) and had to be uninstalled and resinstalled and have a phone call to FD phone banking to get it all workiing again.

didds

swill453 wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:Two questions:
1) Who does your Dad bank with?
2) Have you been forced to use the payee name as your own reference?

For (2) I'm thinking about the scenario I described earlier in this thread at https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.p ... 30#p272652

1) RBS
2) No, we were able to enter anything as the reference.

Scott.

How is the milkman going to know who just paid him? (Confused)

uspaul666 wrote:

swill453 wrote:2) No, we were able to enter anything as the reference.

How is the milkman going to know who just paid him? (Confused)

I put the house address in as the reference.

Scott.